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GodsGift

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It was fairly interesting but it didn't reveal a great deal more than we already knew, i.e. the left see this as a great opportunity to take control of the Labour party and will look to get "anti-Corbyn" MPs out as soon as possible.

The rest was all fairly meagre.
 

Habbinalan

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I guess it's a generation thing but this contribution from John Harris struck a chord for me.

CtCAj2eWIAA5m8i.jpg:large


http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/09/new-times-john-harris-why-labour-losing-its-heartland
 

Abertawe

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Only thing stopping Labour from storming to election success are the Blairites FACT
 

.V.

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Only thing stopping Labour from storming to election success are the Blairites FACT

How will he turn around his personal polling numbers, to the extent that he can lead the party to a 7%+ swing (assuming no changes to boundaries), without Scotland?
 

Jockney

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He will ally with SNP and Greens, that's what's going to happen.
 
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.V.

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He will ally with SNP and Greens, that's what's going to happen.

You don't think Labour linking up with the SNP will cost them English seats? That line of attack seemed to work well for the Conservatives 18 months or so ago.
 

Jockney

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You don't think Labour linking up with the SNP will cost them English seats? That line of attack seemed to work well for the Conservatives 18 months or so ago.

Not if all three agree to field a single candidate between them per constituency.
 
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Alty

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Not if all three agree to field a single candidate between them per constituency.
SNP will be in prime position in almost every Scottish seat in that case. What will be the point of the Labour Party in Scotland? The morale - and therefore membership and organisation - will completely collapse, surely?

I can see the merit in parties standing aside in certain places. For example, UUP or DUP stepping aside in majority nationalist constituencies in Northern Ireland in order to give the other party a clear run (which worked very well in Fermanagh and South Tyrone). Or UKIP allowing a Eurosceptic Tory or Labour MP to get on with it in certain areas. But Labour and the SNP are fundamentally opposed on a crucial issue. The Labour Party believes in the UK and the SNP wants to destroy it. I think a pre-agreed Labour-SNP alliance in Scotland - with SNP as the senior partner - would be a suicidal move for Labour.
 
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Abertawe

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Only link up would be in the event of a hung parliament. Labour needs to go for em, they've done quite well by saying they're actually an austerity party rather than the nice little progressive line they've been plugging. They just need to sort out this nationalism mentality.
 

Red

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Opposing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre!!!!
SNP will be in prime position in almost every Scottish seat in that case. What will be the point of the Labour Party in Scotland? The morale - and therefore membership and organisation - will completely collapse, surely?

I can see the merit in parties standing aside in certain places. For example, UUP or DUP stepping aside in majority nationalist constituencies in Northern Ireland in order to give the other party a clear run (which worked very well in Fermanagh and South Tyrone). Or UKIP allowing a Eurosceptic Tory or Labour MP to get on with it in certain areas. But Labour and the SNP are fundamentally opposed on a crucial issue. The Labour Party believes in the UK and the SNP wants to destroy it. I think a pre-agreed Labour-SNP alliance in Scotland - with SNP as the senior partner - would be a suicidal move for Labour.
Destroy it? Bit melodramatic.
 

AFCB_Mark

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The Labour - SNP - Green alliance that I know some on the left have been cited as a possible way to over turn the Tories, would be viable in the event of a hung Parliament.

The only issue stopping it, is Labour gaining enough seats to rival the Tories and thus be in a position for Queenie to invite them to go and form a government.

It's possible if Labour really got their act together, but I'm skeptical personally under Corbyn.
 

mnb089mnb

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Red

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Opposing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre!!!!
Not in the slightest. The UK would cease to exist if the SNP got its way.
The UK also consists of Wales and NI.
 
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Alty

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The UK also consists of Wales and NI.
Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is 2/3 of a province. The U.K. would cease to have any meaning and a new name would probably have to be thought up.

Anyway, I don't want bits of the country being lopped off and nor do Labour. That's the point.
 

Ian_Wrexham

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Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is 2/3 of a province. The U.K. would cease to have any meaning and a new name would probably have to be thought up.

Anyway, I don't want bits of the country being lopped off and nor do Labour. That's the point.

Wales is not a principality and never has been. Prior to 1284, it was a shifting collection of one or more small Welsh kingdoms, often client states of England and occasionally asserting their independence, together with the quasi-independent Norman Marcher Lordships in the East and South of Wales (and also extended into the border counties - Cheshire, Herefordshire and Shropshire). Between 1216 and 1284 Welsh rulers sporadically asserted, and were sporadically recognised by England as, Princes of Wales though their Principality only encompassed at its zenith much as 2/3 of what is now Wales.

In 1284, the last native rulers of Wales were deposed and the Kingdoms of Gwynedd and Deheubarth (by that time a vassal of Gwynedd) were annexed by the English crown. This principality covered most of the modern-day counties of Gwynedd, Ynys Mon, Flintshire and Ceredigion together with northern Carmarthenshire. The rest of the country continued to be ruled by the feudal statelets that were the Marcher Lordships.

In 1542, Henry VIII abolished the Welsh legal system and brought Wales fully under direct English rule. This abolished the Principality of Wales and the Marcher Lordships and created a single legal jurisdiction: England and Wales. This act also created the Welsh border as we now understand it. This changed a couple of times - most notably in 1972 when Monmouthshire was confirmed as part of Wales.

The position of the 1542 act was clarified by the 1746 Wales and Berwick act that defined England to be "The Kingdom of England, the Dominion of Wales and Berwick Upon Tweed", - a status that persisted until the 1967 Welsh Language act. This began a gradual process of dis-incorporation and legally Wales is now a different country to England.

But Wales is not, and more importantly never has been, a principality.
 

Abertawe

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I don't think Alty understands how much offence he has caused. Please apologise or withdraw the comment about being a principality, don't wanna have to report it.
 
A

Alty

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Wales is not a principality and never has been. Prior to 1284, it was a shifting collection of one or more small Welsh kingdoms, often client states of England and occasionally asserting their independence, together with the quasi-independent Norman Marcher Lordships in the East and South of Wales (and also extended into the border counties - Cheshire, Herefordshire and Shropshire). Between 1216 and 1284 Welsh rulers sporadically asserted, and were sporadically recognised by England as, Princes of Wales though their Principality only encompassed at its zenith much as 2/3 of what is now Wales.

In 1284, the last native rulers of Wales were deposed and the Kingdoms of Gwynedd and Deheubarth (by that time a vassal of Gwynedd) were annexed by the English crown. This principality covered most of the modern-day counties of Gwynedd, Ynys Mon, Flintshire and Ceredigion together with northern Carmarthenshire. The rest of the country continued to be ruled by the feudal statelets that were the Marcher Lordships.

In 1542, Henry VIII abolished the Welsh legal system and brought Wales fully under direct English rule. This abolished the Principality of Wales and the Marcher Lordships and created a single legal jurisdiction: England and Wales. This act also created the Welsh border as we now understand it. This changed a couple of times - most notably in 1972 when Monmouthshire was confirmed as part of Wales.

The position of the 1542 act was clarified by the 1746 Wales and Berwick act that defined England to be "The Kingdom of England, the Dominion of Wales and Berwick Upon Tweed", - a status that persisted until the 1967 Welsh Language act. This began a gradual process of dis-incorporation and legally Wales is now a different country to England.

But Wales is not, and more importantly never has been, a principality.
I stand corrected.

The SNP still want to destroy the UK though.
 

Red

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Opposing the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre!!!!
It's as near as we'll get to a full and frank apology :lol:
 

Stevencc

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So...is Wales a principality or what?
 

Aber gas

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Good stuff from Corbyn at conference. Outlining policy and speaking about issues around housing, poverty and exploitation in the workplace.
He also looked confident and relaxed ( which he should) after a trying time.
 
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