The Labour Thread

[Habbinalan]

Any idiot can be a clever dick arsehole with the benefit of hindsight, but it takes a special kind of low-expectation-having c*** to do so after finishing second.

You do realise that, right? The messiah, despite surpassing most people’s (woefully low) expectations, still finished second and 60+ seats shy of a parliamentary majority. And this against an absolute car crash of a Tory campaign – one of the worst in living memory.

Theresa May had a 2-yard tap in and hoofed it into row Z. There’s no accounting for that. Any Tory campaign with half-competent leadership would have easily secured a 50+ seat majority. If you want to be triumphalist and ignore that fact – the political equivalent of celebrating an away goals defeat to a team that played its worst game of the season – that’s fine.

Kind of disappointing that you’ve taken this approach despite me being pretty magnanimous in ‘defeat’ (see my previous post) as well as consistently generous to Corbyn during the last 12-18 months. But hey… you enjoy your moment. I'll enjoy being away from this nonsense for a while.

I shall miss you're contributions, IF you can stay away.

Aber's understandable (it's what we football fans do) but demeaning gloating aside, I can think of few better ways and better times to lose an election.

As reality kicked in today, although I'd rather the Tories were in opposition, I'm beginning to think that the election result may well have at least created the potential to negate the worst effects of a hard Brexit and catalysed positive changes in most parties and the media. With the incompetent egos that will be in charge for at least the next 6 months, it can still go very wrong but there are plenty of positives - including scope for a Tory wipeout next time around, however soon it comes.

 

[Aber gas]

Any idiot can be a clever dick arsehole with the benefit of hindsight, but it takes a special kind of low-expectation-having c*** to do so after finishing second.

You do realise that, right? The messiah, despite surpassing most people’s (woefully low) expectations, still finished second and 60+ seats shy of a parliamentary majority. And this against an absolute car crash of a Tory campaign – one of the worst in living memory.

Theresa May had a 2-yard tap in and hoofed it into row Z. There’s no accounting for that. Any Tory campaign with half-competent leadership would have easily secured a 50+ seat majority. If you want to be triumphalist and ignore that fact – the political equivalent of celebrating an away goals defeat to a team that played its worst game of the season – that’s fine.

Kind of disappointing that you’ve taken this approach despite me being pretty magnanimous in ‘defeat’ (see my previous post) as well as consistently generous to Corbyn during the last 12-18 months. But hey… you enjoy your moment. I'll enjoy being away from this nonsense for a while.

I will. Cheers mate. All the best with your new job.

 

[Aber gas]

G, stop.

Done now. I'm supposed to be doing risk assessments anyway.

 

[Stevencc]

Why don't you assess the risk of shutting your damn yap, eh Aber?

 

[.V.]

I'm insulted that it took Aber that long to get to me! Fucking gashead.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Communist breakfast clubs might be a good start.

This is the Britain we live in now.

 

[Stringy]

This is the Britain we live in now.

How pants would a communist breakfast club be? I bet they could only afford 7p per child!

 

[Abertawe]

Yeah it's good to carry with class and not gloat but we were spoken to like absolute dickheads for suggesting Corbyn wouldn't be a disaster. These so called left leaning posters like Max & MNB would've happily thrown Corbyn under a bus which would've led to a massive Tory majority and misery for millions, it would've ruined this country. Those guys can get to fuck. It's fair enough having an opinion but just look at the way in which they conducted themselves (especially Max the self-deluded pompous prick, not enough words for him, I'd happily send love from Wales on his jaw) and it's clear why one would feel the want to gloat. Those people came very close to ruining this country for the majority despite professing to be Labour people. c*** to a man.

I feel Labour would be in government had the Lib Dems & SNP performed better but I can't help feel the situation as it is now will benefit Labour in the long run. Instead of being a minority government getting ripped apart by media on a daily the Tories are now hamstrung no matter what they do. They're merely administrators at this point. The next election is a lovely proposition. We may have lost the battle Scummy boy but it's only a matter of time we declare ourselves victors of the war and raise the red flag. The Tories demographic is dying (literally, no offence, RIP all those peeps) and people are wising up as to what 'money' is and changing their views accordingly. The internet is socialism's best friend.

 

[HertsWolf]

Errr, some of these hindsight 'replies' are a bit odd. It's too early with the analysis to know whether Labour did well because of Corbyn. Or despite him. In which case, some of those highlighted comments from many months ago are absolutely spot on.

Oh...and noticing the post immediately before... **I'm** the one to chill?

 

[The Jovial Forester]

...It's too early with the analysis to know whether Labour did well because of Corbyn. Or despite him...

It's really not, it was clearly the slightly more left social democratic offer that he was responsible for that got out the greatly increased Labour vote and if you can't see that give up commenting on politics.
As an aside I'd love this to be the beginning of the end of Oxbridge PPE types dictating labour party policy aided by focus groups but that might be wishful thinking, they'd probably survive that North Korean nuclear strike that Corbyn refuses to protect us from

 

[Abertawe]

Errr, some of these hindsight 'replies' are a bit odd. It's too early with the analysis to know whether Labour did well because of Corbyn. Or despite him. In which case, some of those highlighted comments from many months ago are absolutely spot on.

Oh...and noticing the post immediately before... **I'm** the one to chill?

Yeah, sit down and chill the fuck out.

 

[Aber gas]

I have spent 2 years being patronised, dismissed and flat out abused for supporting Jezza. Everything from c*** to terrorist sympathiser to being a anti Semite. At different points I've been told I don't know how the world works, my politics are irrelevant and everything I've been involved in with regards to grassroots organising for the Labour Party is pointless. Despite what mealy mouthed Tories will say this is a massive victory for Labour, Corbyn and our message.
If a couple of light hearted gloats and a few cheeky jibes upset anyone then I'm not sure how to help you.

In terms of how Labour build on this performance I think building the Party further is important. More members, more activists, greater union militancy is vital. Building further links with community defence is also a good idea. Running food banks, breakfast clubs, challenging the housing gatekeepers that cause so much misery. We should also stay on a election footing for the foreseeable future. In the parliamentary party a few tweaks could be useful. Getting Lewis back on the front benches would be good. Barry Gardiner moving to shadow home sec would also be a move I'd like especially if Dianne is still recovering.
On a lighter note I'm taking my wife out tonight for something completely unrelated to politics or the bloody Labour Party. It's been a while

 

[The Jovial Forester]

...In the parliamentary party a few tweaks could be useful. Getting Lewis back on the front benches would be good. Barry Gardiner moving to shadow home sec would also be a move I'd like especially if Dianne is still recovering.
On a lighter note I'm taking my wife out tonight for something completely unrelated to politics or the bloody Labour Party. It's been a while

Dave Drew will be a useful addition I reckon, him and Corbyn have been mates for years and Drew has a good track record on a fair few key areas including rural affairs (plus had one of the lowest expenses when that expose came out a few years back, likeable bloke)

 

[smat]

I wasn't sold on Corbyn's actual competence (and I'll defend the right of the Abers to mock me for it), but I (and several of my friends) did our first ever bit of political campaigning this election. It had never occurred to me before but when the election was called I think we all felt it just had to be done, otherwise we couldn't complain about the result. Corbyn supporters were mocked as being "a few thousand people at a rally" rather than a sound base for winning a general election, but I think that ability to pull huge numbers of hitherto disengaged people into the fight was massively underestimated, and if it won a few marginals then it clearly made a huge difference. Labour now has the momentum* because the result proves that this platform *is* palatable enough to win an election, and that changes everything (as Scumbag said in the other thread).

Those who are centre-left because of electoral pragmatism can surely drop their inhibitions and get involved now. Anyone who still winces at this direction should join the Lib Dems because it was clearly never about pragmatism, but ideology.

I would also like to see some of the very polished (if previously insipid and "legitimate concerns"y) PLP MPs take the same journey and join the shadow cabinet. Labour can win the next general election but they'll need their very best starting XI do to it.

*pardon the pun... but while I'm on it, Momentum's 'Your Nearest Marginal' initiative was fantastic and made it easy to get involved

 

[The Jovial Forester]

...
Those who are centre-left because of electoral pragmatism can surely drop their inhibitions and get involved now. Anyone who still winces at this direction should join the Lib Dems because it was clearly never about pragmatism, but ideology....

It is a mild centre-left social democratic platform. Just because the Sun and Mail think anyone who doesn't say "how high?' when the City says jump is a communist doesn't mean that a programme of social investment and a mixed economy has suddenly become full communism. It's the swivel-eyed loons who think the magic market solves all that are the ideologues.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

How pants would a communist breakfast club be? I bet they could only afford 7p per child!

Oh, I don't know. It might be fun.

 

[Habbinalan]

I wasn't sold on Corbyn's actual competence (and I'll defend the right of the Abers to mock me for it), but I (and several of my friends) did our first ever bit of political campaigning this election. It had never occurred to me before but when the election was called I think we all felt it just had to be done, otherwise we couldn't complain about the result. Corbyn supporters were mocked as being "a few thousand people at a rally" rather than a sound base for winning a general election, but I think that ability to pull huge numbers of hitherto disengaged people into the fight was massively underestimated, and if it won a few marginals then it clearly made a huge difference. Labour now has the momentum* because the result proves that this platform *is* palatable enough to win an election, and that changes everything (as Scumbag said in the other thread).

Those who are centre-left because of electoral pragmatism can surely drop their inhibitions and get involved now. Anyone who still winces at this direction should join the Lib Dems because it was clearly never about pragmatism, but ideology.

I would also like to see some of the very polished (if previously insipid and "legitimate concerns"y) PLP MPs take the same journey and join the shadow cabinet. Labour can win the next general election but they'll need their very best starting XI do to it.

*pardon the pun... but while I'm on it, Momentum's 'Your Nearest Marginal' initiative was fantastic and made it easy to get involved

I also was not a believer. (I've looked at my posts a year ago). If May had not shot herself in the foot and provided the opportunity, I would probably still have been a doubter.

To a large extent, it's not about what or who Jeremy Corbyn is or represents in isolation, it's about what the Labour Party (especially the PLP) do with the opportunities presented to them. When I look at the shower of shit they are up against, i now think they might do it, even with the Murdoch and Tory press lined up against them. The current cabinet is a gift that keeps on giving and they're likely to be knocking lumps out of each other in back rooms until May has gone.

 

[Jockney]

I also was not a believer. (I've looked at my posts a year ago). If May had not shot herself in the foot and provided the opportunity, I would probably still have been a doubter.

To a large extent, it's not about what or who Jeremy Corbyn is or represents in isolation, it's about what the Labour Party (especially the PLP) do with the opportunities presented to them. When I look at the shower of shit they are up against, i now think they might do it, even with the Murdoch and Tory press lined up against them. The current cabinet is a gift that keeps on giving and they're likely to be knocking lumps out of each other in back rooms until May has gone.

I think most people would have been doubters, but only for another three years. It is very hard to present a positive politics (as opposed to negation of the status quo) when the discourse is dominated by an extraordinary, complex issue; an extraordinary, complex issue that other, more pressing political issues are often cynically subsumed under (immigration, public service provision, human rights, tax). It is harder, still, to do so in that climate when you do not have any real institutions at your disposal.

I think, also, that the public relations strategy of this Labour Leadership is something that the country isn't used to, particularly if you're below a certain age. They relied on a bottom-up approach to exposure; trusting that the membership they'd accrued could be mobilised to set up pressure groups like Momentum, link back up with existing left-activist circles who'd abandoned the Labour Party, create alternative local media, spread the word on social media, reinforce and strengthen blocs in the public sector in the absence of union organisation. It did not receive coverage in the mainstream media, for obvious reasons, but it was there and it was being fought on a very local level. The people who didn't see this or didn't hear about it and were hostile to Corbyn are generally people who do not work in the public sector, do not engage with public service institutions (libraries, schools, the NHS, yes, even the Police) regularly and out of necessity, and, I've noticed, are those who only really engage with politics on those *big*, national single issues outside of election cycles. They are a fair amount of the electorate, yes: but those people like winning and now the Labour Party have potential winners at their helm.

 

[Habbinalan]

I think most people would have been doubters, but only for another three years. It is very hard to present a positive politics (as opposed to negation of the status quo) when the discourse is dominated by an extraordinary, complex issue; an extraordinary, complex issue that other, more pressing political issues are often cynically subsumed under (immigration, public service provision, human rights, tax). It is harder, still, to do so in that climate when you do not have any real institutions at your disposal.

I think, also, that the public relations strategy of this Labour Leadership is something that the country isn't used to, particularly if you're below a certain age. They relied on a bottom-up approach to exposure; trusting that the membership they'd accrued could be mobilised to set up pressure groups like Momentum, link back up with existing left-activist circles who'd abandoned the Labour Party, create alternative local media, spread the word on social media, reinforce and strengthen blocs in the public sector in the absence of union organisation. It did not receive coverage in the mainstream media, for obvious reasons, but it was there and it was being fought on a very local level. The people who didn't see this or didn't hear about it and were hostile to Corbyn are generally people who do not work in the public sector, do not engage with public service institutions (libraries, schools, the NHS, yes, even the Police) regularly and out of necessity, and, I've noticed, are those who only really engage with politics on those *big*, national single issues outside of election cycles. They are a fair amount of the electorate, yes: but those people like winning and now the Labour Party have potential winners at their helm.

Yeah that's almost me - although I was in the public sector for a few years before Eric Pickles set me free and I do support Cambridge (and Barrow) so "like winning" is pushing it a bit. What are you suggesting will happen in 2020?

1FF and Aber gas is an acceptable institute for me. I know of a few others that Murdoch and his ilk haven't got their hands on - most are on social media and largely music or football related for me. Billy Bragg and Richard Caborn rule down our way.

 

[Habbinalan]

....the continual destruction of Western Culture throughout The West is on their shoulders and they will not give up.....

Your words sound familiar.

Is it me with the unknowing broad shoulders or is there someone I should be looking out for?

Incidentally, I recommend amber eyes as an improvement on the jaundiced views you are offering.

 

[Jockney]

Yeah that's almost me - although I was in the public sector for a few years before Eric Pickles set me free and I do support Cambridge (and Barrow) so "like winning" is pushing it a bit. What are you suggesting will happen in 2020?

1FF and Aber gas is an acceptable institute for me. I know of a few others that Murdoch and his ilk haven't got their hands on - most are on social media and largely music or football related for me. Billy Bragg and Richard Caborn rule down our way.

Long way to go 2020, but if the major obstacle was a sense that leadership and their manifesto would not appeal to the electorate in a broad enough way, then Thursday night shows that that definitely isn't the case. Additionally, the big message to come from June 8th is that the potential for change can be given direction by a leadership but it doesn't emanate from the leadership: for the most part, the manifesto is an agglomeration of policies that relatively fringe left movements and campaigns have decades fought for. We've changed the conversation. They're not so fringe anymore, and it will be very hard to put those ideas back in the box, especially with capital struggling to reinvent itself. Just look at Nick Timothy's memo warning against the dangers of playing even soft-neoliberalism with the electorate. At this point it's right-populism and eventual fascism, or socialism.

 

[.V.]

One for Abertawe

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/873674408224862210

 

[Laker]

So I voted Labour as I was wooed by Corbyn (and alienated by the Tories while LD wasn't a look in). But I'm not 100% sold on the economics of this thing.

Can someone please convince me it adds up and Labour weren't going to bankrupt the country again? I'm all for investment in welfare but at some point it needs to be paid for.

 

[Aber gas]

One for Abertawe

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/873674408224862210

brilliant mate

 

[Aber gas]

Labour weren't going to bankrupt the country again?

When did Labour bankrupt the country the first time?

 

[Aber gas]

So I voted Labour as I was wooed by Corbyn (and alienated by the Tories while LD wasn't a look in). But I'm not 100% sold on the economics of this thing.

Can someone please convince me it adds up and Labour weren't going to bankrupt the country again? I'm all for investment in welfare but at some point it needs to be paid for.

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Images/manifesto-2017/Funding Britain's Future.PDF

 

[Abertawe]

One for Abertawe

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/873674408224862210

Rigged bias agenda setting tools of manipulation

 

[.V.]

So I voted Labour as I was wooed by Corbyn (and alienated by the Tories while LD wasn't a look in). But I'm not 100% sold on the economics of this thing.

Can someone please convince me it adds up and Labour weren't going to bankrupt the country again? I'm all for investment in welfare but at some point it needs to be paid for.

Spending £500bn on bailing out failing banks is never gonna look good on the balance sheet.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/the-bankrupt-britain-lie.html?m=1

 

[Aber gas]

I love Corbs ( he's the absolute boy btw) but McDonnell has to be the most astute, clever and effective politician in the U.K right now. A powerhouse who understands the economy and the flow of capital better than anyone.
He's also a dreamboat.

 

[Abertawe]

Corbyn's interview with Marr was superb.

"Look at me, I've got youth on my side"