the Migrant Crisis

[Aber gas]

Of course the authorities are not going to come out and say "the refugees were responsible for this" unless they're 100% certain, it's not the PC thing to do. Doesn't mean we have to play dumb.

Something like this doesn't happen in society just by chance. Therefore, I'm looking for an explanation. The only explanation I find, is the refugees. I'm willing to entertain other possibilities if you just can offer them.

I'm not in full possession of the facts so I can't give you an explanation. You are not in possession of the facts yet you immediately blame refugees, that's fine, we all have prejudices that taint our world view. What I object to is you presenting your opinion and assumption as fact. I'm not sure we are going to get anywhere here.

 

[Tilbury]

I was in Hamburg for NYE, on our packed train into town I'd say at least 80% were non European 15-35 males - nothing wrong with that just a little strange. Dunno what happened but there was a big argument among a section of them on the train and a few tried to fight us, no idea why, maybe because we were speaking English although they weren't speaking German either. Anyway when the train arrived into the main station and everyone piled on to the platform all hell broke loose. Luckily we were all fine but some people looked like they had been slashed or bottled. Pretty horrible to see and after that I can't say I'm that surprised to hear what happened in Koln (and other parts of Hamburg apparently) but you can't say if they're recent arrivals or not.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i'd try and fight u if i saw u too tbf

 

[Tilbury]

Likewise

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Likewise

I'LL EAT YOUR BABIES, BITCH

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Course not. Doesn't fit in with the regressive left world view. Anyone who isn't a heterosexual white male should be presumed innocent of any unpleasant behaviour. And when they are proved guilty of such behaviour, it's only happened as a result of the actions of heterosexual white males. As you of all people should know, good fruit, no other people on earth have any agency whatsoever.

You channelling Ebeneezer Goode, Alty? Either way, this is fucking idiotic.

You could, by the same token, regard Muslims as being rabidly homophobic and misogynistic (a view you could very easily support with reference to myriad social attitude surveys). Would this not constitute good and useful stereotyping?

Depends. If you're using it to justify alienating and marginalising Muslims, then no, it's not good (though it may be useful depending on your aims). If you're using it as a survival tactic as an LGBT person in a Muslim country (not sure I should include the T as it tends to be less of a taboo), then yeah, it's pretty easy to justify.

This stuff is really quite straightforward.

 

[blade1889]

How does it help as a survival tactic?

 

[Alty]

Perhaps it seems straightforward because it's embarrassingly simplistic bullshit. A stereotype such as "all cops are bastards" is in reality incredibly unhelpful and even dangerous.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

"We will not tolerate organized groups of men from North Africa that debase defenseless women with brazen sexual attacks," said Ralf Jäger, interior minister of the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. He added, however, that the authorities will do everything in their power to ensure that such attacks are not repeated. "We owe that to women as well as to those North African refugees who want to live peacefully among us."

http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-1070583.html

Interestingly,
"Many of the presumed perpetrators are suspected of being from a large group of men that has attracted the attention of police in the past several months. Prior to New Year's Eve, the group had been involved in theft and petty crimes in Cologne nightlife districts."

So the Police think they know who they are, and they're a gang of some sort who've been acting up for a while?

C4 news tonight reporting clashes between left and right demos across Germany today, with apparently a large far right demo planned at the weekend in central Cologne. Ironically the demos will attract a far larger police presence than the NYE celebrations did.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

In the battle to see who features higher on the regressive liberal oppressed minority pyramid, it seems we have a clear winner. The victim blaming from German politicians has already begun.

 

[liu]

Time to wear hijab.

 

[Aber gas]

You suggesting that Hitler had the right idea?

 

[Freakyteeth]

You suggesting that Hitler had the right idea?

 

[Renegade]

Godwin's Law, I see you. Sneaking into our threads, stealing our posts.

Aber's post reminded me of Bill Hicks.

 

[G-Dragon]

"Two teenage girls gang-raped by four 'Syrian nationals' in southern Germany"
Poor Germans..

 

[johnnytodd]

shocking tha

 

[Renegade]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...our-Syrian-nationals-in-southern-Germany.html

The 21-year-old suspect and his brother are German residents. The other suspects live in Switzerland and the Netherlands.

As obvious as the Cologne incident appears to be a result of the migrant crisis, it appears this particular story is just a horrible coincidence.

 

[Art Morte]

The Telegraph's report on what happened in Helsinki on New Year's Eve:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lsinki-at-New-Year-Finnish-police-report.html

Basically the same was about to happen as in Cologne, but luckily the police here had learnt of the threat beforehand when they had days earlier made arrests at a refugee center and when interrogating those people, they learnt of the New Year Eve's "gathering" in downtown Helsinki.


Meanwhile, 18 asylum seekers among 31 suspects in Cologne:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35261359

 

[Aber gas]

"Two teenage girls gang-raped by four 'Syrian nationals' in southern Germany"
Poor Germans..

Trawling the Internet for reports of rape in the hope they might further your grubby little agenda ?
Smfh.

 

[Womble98]

My previous posts about many of these refugees and Arab immigrants having no respect for Western values has been proven. Rapes and sexual assault increases have been recorded throughout the areas where refugees have been accepted. This was obviously going to happen, and the disgusting attitude of German ministers who are blaming the women and saying that it is their responsibility to not be sexually assaulted. How about instead of that, you give these scumbags some responsibility. If you can't accept that women deserve equal rights and treatment as men, if you can't accept that those of different sexual orientation deserve equal treatment and equal rights as others, if you can't accept democracy and basic human rights stay in your own backwater of a country.

 

[Aber gas]

My previous posts about many of these refugees and Arab immigrants having no respect for Western values has been proven. Rapes and sexual assault increases have been recorded throughout the areas where refugees have been accepted. This was obviously going to happen, and the disgusting attitude of German ministers who are blaming the women and saying that it is their responsibility to not be sexually assaulted. How about instead of that, you give these scumbags some responsibility. If you can't accept that women deserve equal rights and treatment as men, if you can't accept that those of different sexual orientation deserve equal treatment and equal rights as others, if you can't accept democracy and basic human rights stay in your own backwater of a country.

Fucking well done, you sound pleased. I've just got off the phone with a lady from unicef regarding gathering funds for starving refugees and here you are again castigating the poorest. I hope you're proud of yourself. Where is your humanity and empathy ? Perhaps you don't have any.

 

[Womble98]

Fucking well done, you sound pleased. I've just got off the phone with a lady from unicef regarding gathering funds for starving refugees and here you are again castigating the poorest. I hope you're proud of yourself. Where is your humanity and empathy ? Perhaps you don't have any.

Where is your shock and horror about these mass sexual attacks? Where is your humanity and empathy for them? I'm simply pointing out that it was you and others who suggested I was being ridiculous to suggest that refugees would bring crime and s disgusting attitude to women, as this article shows.

I have worked at food banks serving refugees, I am travelling to Lebanon in the summer to look after the disabled, many victims of the wars and devastation. If the perpetrators of these events were white it would be you shouting down the German ministers for rape apologism. The hypocrisy is disgusting. Go fuck yourself.

 

[Aber gas]

In fact, looking at this page I'm getting depressed. The glee with which people are almost celebrating these crimes is making me feel sick.
"Look we was right about these foreigners" . On a different thread there has been a constructive debate regarding truth, debate and a way to move forward. On this thread I find sneering, bigots who have zero empathy and would rather glory in the actions of the few whilst at the same time using it to vilify the poorest.
Tldr? Get in a fucking bin

 

[Aber gas]

Where is your shock and horror about these mass sexual attacks? Where is your humanity and empathy for them? I'm simply pointing out that it was you and others who suggested I was being ridiculous to suggest that refugees would bring crime and s disgusting attitude to women, as this article shows.

I have worked at food banks serving refugees, I am travelling to Lebanon in the summer to look after the disabled, many victims of the wars and devastation. If the perpetrators of these events were white it would be you shouting down the German ministers for rape apologism. The hypocrisy is disgusting. Go fuck yourself.

My hypocrisy ? I'm not defending the police and I'm no rape apologist. I'm defending refugees when you and your ilk use crimes by the few to carry on your agenda .
As for the last bit. Big words from a little lad.

 

[smat]

Keep it civil, lads.

Ian,
Moderator.

 

[smat]

Godwin's Law, I see you. Sneaking into our threads, stealing our posts.

Aber's post reminded me of Bill Hicks.

Jesus Chris Bill Hicks was fucking terrible.

 

[Womble98]

In fact, looking at this page I'm getting depressed. The glee with which people are almost celebrating these crimes is making me feel sick.
"Look we was right about these foreigners" . On a different thread there has been a constructive debate regarding truth, debate and a way to move forward. On this thread I find sneering, bigots who have zero empathy and would rather glory in the actions of the few whilst at the same time using it to vilify the poorest.
Tldr? Get in a fucking bin

It isn't the actions of the few though is it? It has happened throughout Europe, throughout Sweden, Finland, Germany. Everyone refugees have been, crime has gone up. Do you deny that the majority of these refugees have disagreeable attitudes towards women? It is the same story as in northern towns here, Middle eastern and Asian young men seeing white girls as sexual objects.

And what do you mean by 'you and your ilk'. I'll wager I have done far more than most to have helped

 

[Womble98]

Even if only a minority of refugees will commit these crimes it is still perfectly reasonable to say that we should not admit any. We should not facilitate any number of people, big or small, settling in our country when their morals and ways of life are so vastly at odds with ours. We should instead focus all our aid efforts on Lebanon, on Syria, on Iraq. Rape apologism is saying that we should accept sexual assaults on our civilians because only a few of the migrants do it and the rest of them are friendly.

 

[blade1889]

Can we not admit that terrible things will happen because we will clash but refugees should still be allowed in (better regulated and more structured than Germanys ideas imo), why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? Surely the argument has to be that more good will be done than bad by admitting refugees and taking people away from the Syrian conflicts, from areas controlled by daesh will do far more good than the bad that the minority of refugees bring into Europe. One human life isn't worth more than another, is it?

Many do have completely different ideals to what any of us on this forum have but I don't think saying 'sod it, we cant and wont ever get along' is the answer to any problems. Ideally their problems back home will be sorted and they wouldn't need to claim asylum, hopefully that will happen and they can go back and carry on their lives and rebuild their birth country should they choose, or they decide that they fit in well in Europe.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The problem with 'only a minority' arguments is that often a minority is all that it takes. When people predict more terrorism or increased sexual violence or social disharmony they're not suggesting that every migrant will be a part of that problem, they're suggesting that on the whole the net effect of mass migration from certain parts of the world will be a negative one. Yes limiting immigration is unfair on those who seek to integrate and become valuable members of society, but ultimately the responsibility of Western governments is not to Syrian or Afghan or Iraqi hopefuls, it's to their own people first and foremost.