The proper relegation thread.

[chipmunx]

I've always maintained it should remain at 1 up-1 down, but that is me being selfish, and also because I think it would reduce the number of hobby clubs in the National League and lower. When we got promoted in 1999, there was only Rushden who were blowing other teams out of the water financially (look what happened to them). It took them another two years to get up after us though, and that was only because Max Griggs was hellbent on getting up. How many of the others would have kept going had there been no playoffs? Would Vince have hung around at FGR as long as he has if he didn't get up eventually via the playoffs? (NOTE: This is just an example, he might well have done).

With that being said, I do like that the 2 down has shown the, so called, traditional league clubs that they can't just rest on their laurels anymore.

can you imagine say Notts County, Wrexham (after their takeover), Stockport, York (maybe) and (for arguments sake) say Bolton all battling to try to get up from the NL next season. At least 1 of the 5 wouldn't get up in the 1st 2 seasons....

 

[Si Robin]

That's on them - shouldn't have been shit enough to go down in the first place.

The only team I ever had any sympathy for, relegation wise, was Luton. That's mainly because I don't understand their full punishment, but 30 points will always seem excessive in my eyes. They may as well have demoted them and been done with it. Actually, Macclesfield as well, but then only really their fans and not the club itself.

Anyone else who's been relegated since re-election was abolished had fully deserved it and if they've struggled to get back up, then that's their tough shite.

When we were promoted originally, we were extremely fortunate that Gresley didn't take the only Southern League promotion spot in 1997 due to ground grading issues and then we earned our promotion in 1999 by finishing 2nd in 98 and building on that. Donny were a mess and so were Hereford when they came down in our two Conference seasons, but both eventually got back. Clubs tend to eventually get back - only 4 of the "traditional Football League" teams (off the top of my head) have spent longer than 5 years in non-league after being relegated (Wrexham, Stockport, York and Darlington). That depends on if you include Hereford in that though.

Ultimately, my main argument has always been tat the best team in non-league football should be the only team promoted to the Football League. I fully admit I'm probably alone in that assertion, but I'm happy with that.

 

[Casey]

I believe Wrexham are the longest serving members of the National league. They've probably got fans who can't remember being in the football league.

The thing the pyramid has done is democratise football in the country. No more do us poor serfs have to tip our hat to the toffs who were great when Edward vii was on the throne. Asking if it would be fine with your lordships if we could play the game too.

As for wage caps all I hear is keep the lowlife off our manicured lawns. We don't want those types here.

Casey

 

[Bottega Don]

Bringing re-election back would be a terrible idea. None of our clubs deserve to be in the FL just because we're long-standing members, if we get relegated we deserve it.

I don't really have a huge issue with bankrolled clubs getting to the FL, it's the only way they have a chance. Just because they're historically non-league they shouldn't be criticised for trying to compete with FL clubs. If we suddenly became owned by Saudi billionaires and bought our way up the FL I wouldn't be complaining.

 

[Son of Cod]

That's on them - shouldn't have been shit enough to go down in the first place.

The only team I ever had any sympathy for, relegation wise, was Luton. That's mainly because I don't understand their full punishment, but 30 points will always seem excessive in my eyes. They may as well have demoted them and been done with it. Actually, Macclesfield as well, but then only really their fans and not the club itself.

Anyone else who's been relegated since re-election was abolished had fully deserved it and if they've struggled to get back up, then that's their tough shite.

When we were promoted originally, we were extremely fortunate that Gresley didn't take the only Southern League promotion spot in 1997 due to ground grading issues and then we earned our promotion in 1999 by finishing 2nd in 98 and building on that. Donny were a mess and so were Hereford when they came down in our two Conference seasons, but both eventually got back. Clubs tend to eventually get back - only 4 of the "traditional Football League" teams (off the top of my head) have spent longer than 5 years in non-league after being relegated (Wrexham, Stockport, York and Darlington). That depends on if you include Hereford in that though.

Ultimately, my main argument has always been tat the best team in non-league football should be the only team promoted to the Football League. I fully admit I'm probably alone in that assertion, but I'm happy with that.

2 up 2 down is right, if only for the sake of the season. You need to have playoffs for the top half to aim at, otherwise you'll end up with well over half the division giving up by Jan/Feb/Mar time.

I've always said it would be hypocritical of me to support 1 up 1 down now that we've been promoted through the playoffs. Do you think you'd have the same opinion had Cheltenham not have come back down and gone straight back up as champions? You were fortunate when you came down last time in that you didn't come up against a side chucking loads of money at the title. Not sure you'd be saying this if you'd have got 98 points and finished second to Fleetwood à la Wrexham 2011/12.

There are a few more teams that spent longer than five seasons down there too, we had six - as did Lincoln. I think Mansfield might have been six too? Cambridge were down there for almost a decade.

 

[Casey]

I forgot Cambridge went down. Makes my point about being promoted from the Southern league a bit iffy.

Casey

 

[GEORGE]

That's on them - shouldn't have been shit enough to go down in the first place.

The only team I ever had any sympathy for, relegation wise, was Luton. That's mainly because I don't understand their full punishment, but 30 points will always seem excessive in my eyes. They may as well have demoted them and been done with it. Actually, Macclesfield as well, but then only really their fans and not the club itself.

Anyone else who's been relegated since re-election was abolished had fully deserved it and if they've struggled to get back up, then that's their tough shite.

When we were promoted originally, we were extremely fortunate that Gresley didn't take the only Southern League promotion spot in 1997 due to ground grading issues and then we earned our promotion in 1999 by finishing 2nd in 98 and building on that. Donny were a mess and so were Hereford when they came down in our two Conference seasons, but both eventually got back. Clubs tend to eventually get back - only 4 of the "traditional Football League" teams (off the top of my head) have spent longer than 5 years in non-league after being relegated (Wrexham, Stockport, York and Darlington). That depends on if you include Hereford in that though.

Ultimately, my main argument has always been tat the best team in non-league football should be the only team promoted to the Football League. I fully admit I'm probably alone in that assertion, but I'm happy with that.

Well with regards to traditional league teams you would also have to include Bradford Park Avenue, Workington & Southport all regulars at Eastville.

 

[Si Robin]

Well with regards to traditional league teams you would also have to include Bradford Park Avenue, Workington & Southport all regulars at Eastville.

None of those are since the abolishment of re-election, which was the point I was making - I accept that may not have been clear though.

2 up 2 down is right, if only for the sake of the season. You need to have playoffs for the top half to aim at, otherwise you'll end up with well over half the division giving up by Jan/Feb/Mar time.

I've always said it would be hypocritical of me to support 1 up 1 down now that we've been promoted through the playoffs. Do you think you'd have the same opinion had Cheltenham not have come back down and gone straight back up as champions? You were fortunate when you came down last time in that you didn't come up against a side chucking loads of money at the title. Not sure you'd be saying this if you'd have got 98 points and finished second to Fleetwood à la Wrexham 2011/12.

There are a few more teams that spent longer than five seasons down there too, we had six - as did Lincoln. I think Mansfield might have been six too? Cambridge were down there for almost a decade.

I think I've always been quite consistent on this point that I would always have this opinion.

 

[Luke Imp]

can you imagine say Notts County, Wrexham (after their takeover), Stockport, York (maybe) and (for arguments sake) say Bolton all battling to try to get up from the NL next season. At least 1 of the 5 wouldn't get up in the 1st 2 seasons....

There'll always be seasons where there are bottlenecks of decent squads (not necessarily big clubs), but I don't think it happens too often.

 

[Vanni]

Ok, I've had a little look at your replies and it seems clear to me there's very little appetite for relegation this season. As in nobody wants to lose two proper clubs to the evil that is the National League. I'll get on the blower asap and tell the EFL brass that we're all in favour of going back to the re-election years.

 

[northstandexile]

Sod that - we lost our league place to Hereford when we didn't even finish in the bottom 2....
and we are the only club to lose a re-election vote and get back into the league - and nobody is taking a share of that unique record off us (unless Southport or Workington get back - i'll allow that).I'd be quite happy for the NL to introduce a squad and salary cap to help stop the Salfords though.....

Not true.
Newport County in 1931 back in 1932
Gillingham in 1938 back in 1950

 

[Vanni]

Chaps, I was only joking about the re-election thing. In fact I have often voiced my opinion on here that I'm all for 3 down 3 up as the NL having just the one automatic promotion spot doesn't sit right with me.

I was being wholly serious on Wrexham becoming the New Salford though, and that's mostly down to Ryan Reynolds having no links at all with the club, so much so that apparently it was only after the Hartlepool owner had turned him down that he approached Wrexham. And people would be naive when saying Reynolds won't be getting anything out of it - a documentary/tv series can make you a very tidy profit.

I'm worried more celebs will be following in Reynolds footsteps and buying random NL clubs and the problem I have with this is that the other NL clubs just won't be able to compete financially. Bear in mind that some actor investing millions in a club does look a lot of money to us but it's chicken feed to them.

 

[masi51]

This is where i am at with this......We have a small chance this season of dropping out of the football league.
If we come bottom two we deserve to go....If there was re election not a chance in hell would Bolton go......That is wrong.
And for what its worth i still think the may be no demotion as the financial impact of the pandemic as not come to light yet

 

[GTFCfish]

Some of our fans are ‘uncomfortable’ with staying up if the league below gets scrapped. As long as no team goes bust, bollocks to our pride, there’s no way I want to go back down there and any way out of it is good by me.

Too right, I don’t care how we stay up lucky or not I’ll take it, as I’m sure next season with Hurst having pre season to build his own squad we will not be in a mess like this again.

 

[Vanni]

Yep, nobody can say with any certainty right now that the National League sides will be able to keep fulfilling all the remaining fixtures with all the problems they're facing and obvs if two clubs can't come up then the two bottom L2 sides should be safe from the drop.

ps - Would be most unfair on Torquay and the other promotion hopefuls were this to happen of course.

 

[Back in the DHSS]

I think a bare minimum requirement for non league football clubs coming into the football league should be.
1) An ale house and chippy or pie shop outside the ground.
2) Support averaging 1000 or more per game over the last 10 seasons
3) Good transport links.
4) Fans who don’t constantly talk about Cantona Giggs and Keane.
5)Not having more flags and banners than fans.

F#ck off Salford.

 

[Si Robin]

I think a bare minimum requirement for non league football clubs coming into the football league should be.
1) An ale house and chippy or pie shop outside the ground.
2) Support averaging 1000 or more per game over the last 10 seasons
3) Good transport links.
4) Fans who don’t constantly talk about Cantona Giggs and Keane.
5)Not having more flags and banners than fans.

F#ck off Salford.

Before we entered the league, we'd fail 3 out of 5 of those.

We had a decent numbers of pubs near to the ground (though 3 have closed since our initial promotion) and there's a chippy on Whaddon Road, though not necessarily outside the ground.

2, 3 and 4 we'd fail on, though 3 might be a push. We're a 10 minute walk from town, and the train station is two regular bus journeys away.

I'd say most of our match-going fans follow a Premier League team and in 1999, when we were promoted, the vast majority of them would have been Man Utd fans.

We've never had many flags and banners.

 

[Casey]

1. We have a pub outside the ground. The New Moon allows away fans in too.
Nearest chippy is probably a ten-fifteen minute walk away.

2. I think we may pass this test. Pretty sure the last couple of seasons in the Southern league we just managed to beat it and every season in the conference for sure....years go by.

3. Bus outside the ground connects to town and Gatwick Airport. Worldwide transport links!

4. Lots of people in Crawley come from outside the town originally. Many have dual loyalties but choose to watch Crawley. I often stand with a mackem who moved here 20 years ago. Anyone talking about Man Utd/Liverpool team is told to f off. Ditto with other teams shirts....unless they are grounhoppers when they are given beer as long as it's not a Premier league teams shirt.

5. We all fail this test at the moment.

Can we stay?

Casey

 

[Back in the DHSS]

Before we entered the league, we'd fail 3 out of 5 of those.

We had a decent numbers of pubs near to the ground (though 3 have closed since our initial promotion) and there's a chippy on Whaddon Road, though not necessarily outside the ground.

2, 3 and 4 we'd fail on, though 3 might be a push. We're a 10 minute walk from town, and the train station is two regular bus journeys away.

I'd say most of our match-going fans follow a Premier League team and in 1999, when we were promoted, the vast majority of them would have been Man Utd fans.

We've never had many flags and banners.

Northern sense of humour dig at Salford tbh.
Cheltenham is a decent away day, like you say it’s a bit of a trek from the station but there’s plenty of watering holes en route. Whaddon road also creates a good atmosphere with 3500 plus crowds. As for premier league fans, every club has them. But not to the extent where they are all talking Man Utd drivel.

 

[Robshep]

Northern sense of humour dig at Salford tbh.
Cheltenham is a decent away day, like you say it’s a bit of a trek from the station but there’s plenty of watering holes en route. Whaddon road also creates a good atmosphere with 3500 plus crowds. As for premier league fans, every club has them. But not to the extent where they are all talking Man Utd drivel.

Need to be careful what you say on the phone there though with all the spies up the road.

 

[chipmunx]

Not true.
Newport County in 1931 back in 1932
Gillingham in 1938 back in 1950

i'll rephrase it - the only club to get voted out then win their place back

 

[Railway Blue]

I think a bare minimum requirement for non league football clubs coming into the football league should be.
1) An ale house and chippy or pie shop outside the ground.
2) Support averaging 1000 or more per game over the last 10 seasons
3) Good transport links.
4) Fans who don’t constantly talk about Cantona Giggs and Keane.
5)Not having more flags and banners than fans.

F#ck off Salford.

Bloody 'ell we'd fail on No 1. Would a portable chip van count?

 

[loz]

Bloody 'ell we'd fail on No 1. Would a portable chip van count?

No. Number 1 is the most important!!!

 

[BarraMatt]

Is it time to welcome Harrogate Town to the #thread?

 

[valefan16]

Us and Grimsby down simple as that.

 

[Back in the DHSS]

Bloody 'ell we'd fail on No 1. Would a portable chip van count?

As long as it’s on the English side of the border!

 

[Back in the DHSS]

Is it time to welcome Harrogate Town to the #thread?

On tonights performance they’ll be more than safe.
Not so sure about ”fur coat and no knickers“ Bolton though!

 

[Shrimper92]

Us and Grimsby down simple as that.

Where are we getting 10 points from?

 

[valefan16]

Where are we getting 10 points from?

Got 3 at the weekend coming your way

 

[Shrimpurh]

Got 3 at the weekend coming your way

No chance