UKIP Thread

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Well feminists theories, gender identity theories, our understanding of homosexuality, racial cohesion theories etc. operate as much if not more on faith than fact, yet are unquestionable to many.

 

[Red]

Ahh, you mean progression. Yeah, the 70s were much better when we didn't have any of this wishy washy nonsense.

 

[Alty]

Ahh, you mean progression. Yeah, the 70s were much better when we didn't have any of this wishy washy nonsense.

He's talking about harassing people or shouting them down simply because they don't subscribe to the political/sociological zeitgeist. It's pretty straightforward.

Farage is wrong about plenty of things but he's entitled to his opinion and shouldn't be intimidated into not expressing them. Which is also a pretty straightforward point.

Basically, pillocks who think they're intellectually superior because they're in some avant garde theatre group can just fuck right off. Either present a superior argument or stay the fuck away from politics.

 

[Red]

Unless he specifies he meant them then it read that he was making a generic remark about the theories put forward by people about homosexuality etc. There are people like that who would also disagree with what happened to Farage the other day. I don't think EG likes the sort of people with progressive ideas. There's no need to accuse me of saying or implying he's homophobic, sexist etc as you've a wont to do sometimes.

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

Basically, pillocks who think they're intellectually superior because they're in some avant garde theatre group can just fuck right off. Either present a superior argument or stay the fuck away from politics.

"...and suddenly the mask slipped. He realised he'd spoken too hastily, revealed too much. It all came flooding back to him, the torment as real as if he were experiencing it for the first time: the cold, dark nights in front of Film 4, the subtitles giving him a headache, the contempt in his English teacher's voice as he confused simile and metaphor, again. Anger gripped his stomach like a cold fist. He slammed his laptop lid shut. He would go to the pub and order a pint of nut brown ale. He would be amongst his own again, and they would speak common sense together..."

 

[Alty]

Unless he specifies he meant them then it read that he was making a generic remark about the theories put forward by people about homosexuality etc. There are people like that who would also disagree with what happened to Farage the other day. I don't think EG likes the sort of people with progressive ideas. There's no need to accuse me of saying or implying he's homophobic, sexist etc as you've a wont to do sometimes.

I genuinely don't follow this. I'm accusing you of saying who's homophobic or sexist? EG? Have I? Can only remember challenging your claim he's racist and that was because you openly accused him...

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

You can't reason with some people once they've been triggered Alty. They've already re-imagined what you actually said and anything that comes afterwards is just a deception they're convinced they have to shine a light on. A bit like how Red now believes that I'm somehow against progressive ideas, without having said anything remotely like that.

 

[Red]

I genuinely don't follow this. I'm accusing you of saying who's homophobic or sexist? EG? Have I? Can only remember challenging your claim he's racist and that was because you openly accused him...

That is exactly a case in point Alty. Show me where I've openly accused him of being racist? On the posts that went missing the other day you mentioned something along the lines of saying come on chaps accusing him of racism is going too far when in fact nobody had accused him of being racist. Just to let you know that I know the difference between race, religion and ethnicity and to my knowledge EG has never posted anything racist. I do think a lot of his posts reflect his hostility to Muslims and immigrants, but that does not equate with being racist.

You also did something similar on the UKIP thread on TFF when you said that it was out of order that members were likening UKIP to neo-Nazis. I reviewed that thread and not one person likened them to neo-Nazis.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

He's talking about harassing people or shouting them down simply because they don't subscribe to the political/sociological zeitgeist. It's pretty straightforward.

Farage is wrong about plenty of things but he's entitled to his opinion and shouldn't be intimidated into not expressing them. Which is also a pretty straightforward point.

Basically, pillocks who think they're intellectually superior because they're in some avant garde theatre group can just fuck right off. Either present a superior argument or stay the fuck away from politics.

I did some migrants rights leafleting in an area of London that was targeted by Operation Skybreaker a few months back. This was an Immigration Control "outreach exercise" that involved about a dozen, tooled up, uniformed Immigration Enforcement Officers (often with other, actual, cops) going into Asian/African shops and restaurants and demanding to see lists of employees; demanding to see the papers of customers; refusing to let customers leave; refusing to leave when asked and frequently making arbitrary arrests.

All of this was illegal, racist and relied on people not being aware of their own rights. But shopkeepers told me that Immigration Control operations were multiple times a week, often daily and that there was no point even staying open when the operations were taking place.

I don't think Farage is entirely to blame for this - May is a nasty piece of work - but his rhetoric deliberately inflames and encourages these abuses - this state sanctioned harassment. The volume and prominence of lies about immigration makes it impossible for groups fighting for migrants rights to effectively counter the rhetoric (despite the arguments against these operations being straightforward).

And while I don't think harassing him out of public life would work, it'd be pretty sweet. And having his Sunday Lunch ruined is the least he deserves.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Which lies?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Well feminists theories, gender identity theories, our understanding of homosexuality, racial cohesion theories etc. operate as much if not more on faith than fact, yet are unquestionable to many.

It's striking how limited an understanding of these theories the brave souls challenging the new "social justice religion" often display, and how often their own "theories" come accompanied by a desire to maintain institutional barriers and restrict people's freedoms. Astonishing how uppity historically oppressed and marginalised groups of people become when they feel as though their liberties are being threatened...

Not overly sure what this has got to do with a ragtag bunch of people invading a pub in Kent though tbh.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Which lies?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rictions-lifted-at-start-of-year-9367046.html

UKIP lie about immigration. When they're not making up facts, they're perpetuating a fundamentally dishonest narrative that marginalises and scapegoats immigrants while failing to recognise the harassment they face.

IMO that's far worse than making up a few numbers here and there.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It's striking how limited an understanding of these theories the brave souls challenging the brave "social justice religion" often display, and how often their own "theories" come accompanied by a desire to maintain institutional barriers and restrict people's freedoms. Astonishing how uppity historically oppressed and marginalised groups of people become when they feel as though their liberties are being threatened...

It is actually, given how quick they often are to attack the liberties of others if they think it'll redress the balance. It's a sad state of affairs when an attack on our freedoms is just as likely to come from a group of sanctimonious self-anointed "progressives" as it is a right-wing conservative government.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rictions-lifted-at-start-of-year-9367046.html

UKIP lie about immigration. When they're not making up facts, they're perpetuating a fundamentally dishonest narrative that marginalises and scapegoats immigrants while failing to recognise the harassment they face.

IMO that's far worse than making up a few numbers here and there.

I'm not sure it's fair to call a prediction that turned out to be incorrect a "lie". It's not like tens of thousands of migrants coming from those two countries seemed implausible at the time, especially with what happened with the Polish.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

It is actually, given how quick they often are to attack the liberties of others if they think it'll redress the balance. It's a sad state of affairs when an attack on our freedoms is just as likely to come from a group of sanctimonious self-anointed "progressives" as it is a right-wing conservative government.

Haha, wtf?

 

[silkyman]

Perhaps not an outright lie (if they had any evidence that those sort of numbers might be accurate you could call it a failed prediction) but as they probably pulled those figures out of their arse, it was at best blatant headline grabbing scaremongering.

 

[SUTSS]

I'm not sure it's fair to call a prediction that turned out to be incorrect a "lie". It's not like tens of thousands of migrants coming from those two countries seemed implausible at the time, especially with what happened with the Polish.

Except it isn't really comparable to the Polish situation with the transitional controls in place this time and the different linguistic and cultural bonds between the countries.

Haha, wtf?

I think EG has a point here. There is a growing section of the left who want to shut down debate and are going to increasingly authoritarian methods to do this.

 

[mnb089mnb]

I don't know when I've had my freedom attacked by feminists.

 

[SUTSS]

Perhaps not. But there is a group of the left who are so dogmatic in their views that they will attack anyone who is outside of that even when they really should be allies. Take Peter Tatchell for example, a great campaigner for LGBT rights and the sort of person that everyone on the left sees as an ally but with the signing of a letter that was also signed by some pretty unsavoury people he was hounded and labelled an enemy. This has happened to many more people on the left that haven't gone along with the dogma and get labelled homophobic, transphobic, islamophobic, racist for actually holding some pretty liberal views. This is perhaps best seen at universities where an increasing number of liberal thinkers aren't being allowed to speak due to pressure by student groups.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I don't know when I've had my freedom attacked by feminists.

Well if you haven't personally then nobody possibly could have. Seriously though, it's hardly rare for feminists to push for sexist quota systems, not to mention doing what they can to silence dissenting opinions.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Well if you haven't personally then nobody possibly could have. Seriously though, it's hardly rare for feminists to push for sexist quota systems, not to mention doing what they can to silence dissenting opinions.

"Gender-ratios are sexist" from the man who brought us "The Boobies Thread 2: Return To Thunderdome".

Maybe sort yourself out, you fucking embarrassment, before deciding which aspects of feminism are sexist or not (clue: it's the bits that exclude trans-women from women's spaces, the bits that marginalise and endanger sex workers and very little of the other stuff).

 

[HertsWolf]

And having his Sunday Lunch ruined is the least he deserves.

Although I dislike the man, I look forward to your response on the day you and your family are harassed and abused in a restaurant over their political beliefs. Always find it amusing when the politically righteous harp on about what is illegal, morally just, right, etc but are happy for the same sense of justice to be suspended for people with whom you disagree.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Well if you haven't personally then nobody possibly could have. Seriously though, it's hardly rare for feminists to push for sexist quota systems, not to mention doing what they can to silence dissenting opinions.

You wrote "our freedoms" though, which I guess would include everyone - including me.

I'm surprised you're putting the undefined 'attacks on freedom' from feminists on the same level as the incumbent government. Just seems odd. Feminists have existed for quite a while and they've not been able to change very much - it's still a great country to live in if you're a white male.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

You wrote "our freedoms" though, which I guess would include everyone - including me.

I'm surprised you're putting the undefined 'attacks on freedom' from feminists on the same level as the incumbent government. Just seems odd. Feminists have existed for quite a while and they've not been able to change very much - it's still a great country to live in if you're a white male.

Well I never specified feminists in that comment to be fair, you did, I just said sanctimonious progressives.

"Gender-ratios are sexist" from the man who brought us "The Boobies Thread 2: Return To Thunderdome".

Maybe sort yourself out, you fucking embarrassment, before deciding which aspects of feminism are sexist or not (clue: it's the bits that exclude trans-women from women's spaces and very little of the other stuff)

Thus confirming my prior statement. You treat your ideology like it's fucking gospel and then get all hysterical when someone has the audacity to hold a different view. You do realise that the social sciences are not really sciences, right?

 

[mnb089mnb]

Well I never specified feminists in that comment to be fair, you did, I just said sanctimonious progressives.

What freedoms are the "sanctimonious progressives" denying us? I think you're overstating their power a little to compare them to the power of the Conservative party.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

What freedoms are the "sanctimonious progressives" denying us? I think you're overstating their power a little to compare them to the power of the Conservative party.

It was a poor choice of words. What I really mean to say is that currently authoritarian ideals are just as likely to be pushed by the left as the right. The left will happily erode freedom of expression if they believe it might help a minority group, while the right will do likewise ostensibly for security reasons. And don't get me started on affirmative action.

 

[Conker]

"Gender-ratios are sexist" from the man who brought us "The Boobies Thread 2: Return To Thunderdome".

Maybe sort yourself out, you fucking embarrassment, before deciding which aspects of feminism are sexist or not (clue: it's the bits that exclude trans-women from women's spaces and very little of the other stuff).

Getting that irritated over a Internet forum makes you the fucking embarassment.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Although I dislike the man, I look forward to your response on the day you and your family are harassed and abused in a restaurant over their political beliefs. Always find it amusing when the politically righteous harp on about what is illegal, morally just, right, etc but are happy for the same sense of justice to be suspended for people with whom you disagree.

I've been harassed for my political beliefs to a far greater degree than having some people dancing dabke in my local.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I'd like to know who's silencing free expression.

So far SJW extremists have:
- not bought tickets to Kate Smurthwaite's gig.
- organised a competing, trans-inclusive event when Germaine Greer spoke at Cambridge.
- danced dabke in Nigel Farage's pub.
- criticised Peter Tatchell for being transphobic when he was transphobic.

Man, those SJW extremists, ushering in a fascist state. I think it's more the case that EG gets massively arsey when people rightly call out his poorly cloaked racism/sexism and incredibly basic understanding of structural oppression.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It's not really calling anything out so long as you can never actually substantiate your claims beyond parroting some random social theory you happen to subscribe to. And I'd have thought the more obvious example of SJW authoritarianism would have been their repeated attempts to get groups like the EDL banned, or routinely using mob tactics to try and get conservative speakers silenced. As for free expression, we've never really had it. We had the chance to get rid of our blasphemy laws but instead an unholy alliance of so-called progressives and religious leaders lobbied the government to create an even more repressive version in the form of the Racial and Religious Hatred Act, which recently resulted in a 15 year old girl getting arrested for burning a book...

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

which recently resulted in a 15 year old girl getting arrested for burning a book...

Bit of context. This happened in 2010. The girl posted a video on facebook of herself burning a copy of the Qu'ran at school in front of other pupils. A 14 year old boy made threats against her. They were both arrested and bailed. A week later the CPS decided to take no further action against either.

If that's the biggest threat to free expression we face, I think we're probably just about OK.