Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[Stagat]

...

Replied in the ISIS Crisis* thread mate.

*can a mod rename it to that btw?

 

[Freakyteeth]

 

[spireite]

That's amazing

 

[Womble98]

A man in Bradford has been attacked with a pickaxe handle because he converted from Islam to Christianity. The majority of Egyptians agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Pakistanis agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Jordanians agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Afghani's agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Palestinians agree. The majority of Malaysians. That is 333 million people living in countries where execution for leaving the faith is the status quo belief. The number in the world who believe the same is going to be way higher than that. That is abominable, and completely incompatible with western society.

Yes, not all Muslims believe this. But a substantial number do, which is reason enough to be cautious about allowing people with these views to take up residence in our country


Source: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...nverting-from-islam-to-christianity-1-7579804

 

[mnb089mnb]

A man in Bradford has been attacked with a pickaxe handle because he converted from Islam to Christianity. The majority of Egyptians agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Pakistanis agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Jordanians agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Afghani's agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Palestinians agree. The majority of Malaysians. That is 333 million people living in countries where execution for leaving the faith is the status quo belief. The number in the world who believe the same is going to be way higher than that. That is abominable, and completely incompatible with western society.

Yes, not all Muslims believe this. But a substantial number do, which is reason enough to be cautious about allowing people with these views to take up residence in our country


Source: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...nverting-from-islam-to-christianity-1-7579804

You've got to be careful with statistics.

The percentages are nested, so you have a scenario where you say of the 64% of Malaysians who are Muslim, 86% of them believe sharia law should be implemented, and of those 62% feel apostatism should receive the death penalty. But even then it's not as simple as that as you have people who don't want full sharia law, but agree with the death penalty for apostasy.

Looking at the stats it seems that the statement that the majority of Malaysians would want to see the death penalty for changing faith is incorrect.

Fascinating post here on the subject of these statistics:
http://empethop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/a-fact-check-of-bill-maher-and-his.html

 

[sl1k]

Sharia Law is not a sort of codified constitution, it is an interpretation of Quranic texts using Hadiths (literature authored by people who knew, knew of, or were just around at the time of the pophet in -1400 years ago society).

Sharia Law is also more often than not confused with Hudud Ordinance which, if you like, is an extreme interpretation originating in Pakistan around 1979.

 

[Techno Natch]

A man in Bradford has been attacked with a pickaxe handle because he converted from Islam to Christianity. The majority of Egyptians agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Pakistanis agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Jordanians agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Afghani's agree that he should have been executed. The majority of Palestinians agree. The majority of Malaysians. That is 333 million people living in countries where execution for leaving the faith is the status quo belief. The number in the world who believe the same is going to be way higher than that. That is abominable, and completely incompatible with western society.

Yes, not all Muslims believe this. But a substantial number do, which is reason enough to be cautious about allowing people with these views to take up residence in our country


Source: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...nverting-from-islam-to-christianity-1-7579804

People from those countries also believe in the death penalty for things as arbitrary as drug use. It's as much a problem with culture as it is religion in my opinion.

You'd probably find just as many non Muslims with the same views in the countries listed.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Should also be remembered that someone (presumably British) in this thread advocated the hanging of a man, due to a post he had made on Facebook.

 

[SUTSS]

People from those countries also believe in the death penalty for things as arbitrary as drug use. It's as much a problem with culture as it is religion in my opinion.

You'd probably find just as many non Muslims with the same views in the countries listed.

To what extent can you separate religion from culture though? I mean even in a very secular Britain the influence of Christianity on our culture and heritage is huge, that can only increase in a more conservative religious country.

 

[T.A]

@intlspectator: BREAKING: Donald Trump says he is open to registering U.S. Muslims in database or giving them special ID identifying their faith

 

[spireite]

BREAKING NEWS: Donald Trump is a fucking ****.

Coming next week...

BREAKING NEWS: Bears shit in the woods: Exposed!

 

[Techno Natch]

To what extent can you separate religion from culture though? I mean even in a very secular Britain the influence of Christianity on our culture and heritage is huge, that can only increase in a more conservative religious country.

Yeah that's a good point and I wouldn't argue with that. Religion is culture. Seemingly atheist countries like China still use the death penalty extensively so it's not just related to religion and it would be interesting if you'd get the similar percentages there if you asked about the death penalty. Hope I'm making sense.

Of course I don't believe that religion should have any part in a countries policy making. From Saudi Arabia to Ireland to Uganda it normally means vulnerable or alternative people are persecuted on the basis of out of date scripture.

I don't believe its a reason to be cautious against people from those countries to move here though.

 

[Womble98]

People from those countries also believe in the death penalty for things as arbitrary as drug use. It's as much a problem with culture as it is religion in my opinion.

You'd probably find just as many non Muslims with the same views in the countries listed.

That's probably true but is just as strong a reason not to admit them

 

[TheMinsterman]

It'd be a strong reason to not admit them if this was a regular occurrence and not just an isolated incident sure. How many Muslims have murdered apostates in the UK in the last decade?

 

[mistermagic]

Abaoud killed in yesterday's battle. All is good with the world.

 

[Saddlerrad]

A controlled explosion has taken place of a suspicious package at Baker Street Tube Station after it was evacuated this evening according to various sources on Twitter.

 

[sl1k]

departed user

 

[Freakyteeth]

 

[silkyman]

@intlspectator: BREAKING: Donald Trump says he is open to registering U.S. Muslims in database or giving them special ID identifying their faith

Godwin's law rendered pretty much redundant here...

 

[HertsWolf]

The number in the world who believe the same is going to be way higher than that. That is abominable, and completely incompatible with western society.

Yes, not all Muslims believe this. But a substantial number do, which is reason enough to be cautious about allowing people with these views to take up residence in our country

“If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13: 6-10)
[In short, murder anyone who suggests you go to another religion]

The following are listed in Leviticus or Exodus as being punishable by death:

• bringing unauthorised candles into a church
• priests having unkempt hair
• drinking alcohol in church (ummmmm..... this one's a big problem for us, Sunday mornings)
• adultery
• swearing at or hitting your parents
• blasphemy
• letting your ox wander around freely if it is known to be bad-tempered
• killing a burglar in daylight hours
• mistreating widows or orphans
• working on Sunday

The last one is also a well-known dilemma for vicars.

Yes, not all Christians believe this. But a substantial number do, which is reason enough to be cautious about allowing people with these views to take up residence in our country.

 

[Womble98]

“If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13: 6-10)
[In short, murder anyone who suggests you go to another religion]

The following are listed in Leviticus or Exodus as being punishable by death:

• bringing unauthorised candles into a church
• priests having unkempt hair
• drinking alcohol in church (ummmmm..... this one's a big problem for us, Sunday mornings)
• adultery
• swearing at or hitting your parents
• blasphemy
• letting your ox wander around freely if it is known to be bad-tempered
• killing a burglar in daylight hours
• mistreating widows or orphans
• working on Sunday

The last one is also a well-known dilemma for vicars.

Yes, not all Christians believe this. But a substantial number do, which is reason enough to be cautious about allowing people with these views to take up residence in our country.

When was the last time a Christian went and blew himself up in a mosque? When was the last time a vicar described the west as the enemy, as something which should be reviled and hated. Yes, the bible says that stuff but do any people in the western world believe it? Do the Christian refugees practice it? The Catholics certainly don't, as the Catechism makes it clear that it isn't allowed. It is this bullshit which completely ignores the reality. In the middle east the biggest victims of all this shit are the Christians who have lived there for centuries and are being driven out.

To act as if the number of Christians who do this kind of thing is equivalent to the number of Muslims who do is just so fucking wrong, and you know it. Your last sentence is false as well, there just isn't a substantial number who believe this stuff, there is the occasional nutjob and that is all.They might view those acts as sinful but with the majority of the world's church's speaking out against the death penalty, there is no way in hell that they actually practice it.

Christianity had its day of barbarism in the medieval/renaissance periods, and at this point is an overwhelmingly peaceful religion. There may be views about homosexuality which are bigoted however there is not a significant number of people calling for the gays to be executed. Islam seems to be however about 700 years behind the rest of the world.

 

[TomPNE94]

Religion is proper fucking shit

 

[Womble98]

Religion is proper fucking shit

But only one's adherents blows up airplanes, offices, shops, restaurants, trains, theatres.

 

[mnb089mnb]

When was the last time a Christian went and blew himself up in a mosque? When was the last time a vicar described the west as the enemy, as something which should be reviled and hated. Yes, the bible says that stuff but do any people in the western world believe it? Do the Christian refugees practice it? The Catholics certainly don't, as the Catechism makes it clear that it isn't allowed. It is this bullshit which completely ignores the reality. In the middle east the biggest victims of all this shit are the Christians who have lived there for centuries and are being driven out.

To act as if the number of Christians who do this kind of thing is equivalent to the number of Muslims who do is just so fucking wrong, and you know it. Your last sentence is false as well, there just isn't a substantial number who believe this stuff, there is the occasional nutjob and that is all.They might view those acts as sinful but with the majority of the world's church's speaking out against the death penalty, there is no way in hell that they actually practice it.

Christianity had its day of barbarism in the medieval/renaissance periods, and at this point is an overwhelmingly peaceful religion. There may be views about homosexuality which are bigoted however there is not a significant number of people calling for the gays to be executed. Islam seems to be however about 700 years behind the rest of the world.

I think you've over-egged how benign Christianity is here.

 

[sl1k]

When was the last time a Christian went and blew himself up in a mosque? When was the last time a vicar described the west as the enemy, as something which should be reviled and hated. Yes, the bible says that stuff but do any people in the western world believe it? Do the Christian refugees practice it? The Catholics certainly don't, as the Catechism makes it clear that it isn't allowed. It is this bullshit which completely ignores the reality. In the middle east the biggest victims of all this shit are the Christians who have lived there for centuries and are being driven out.

To act as if the number of Christians who do this kind of thing is equivalent to the number of Muslims who do is just so fucking wrong, and you know it. Your last sentence is false as well, there just isn't a substantial number who believe this stuff, there is the occasional nutjob and that is all.They might view those acts as sinful but with the majority of the world's church's speaking out against the death penalty, there is no way in hell that they actually practice it.

Christianity had its day of barbarism in the medieval/renaissance periods, and at this point is an overwhelmingly peaceful religion. There may be views about homosexuality which are bigoted however there is not a significant number of people calling for the gays to be executed. Islam seems to be however about 700 years behind the rest of the world.

It's not quite computing how I should respond to this. So....

 

[Christian Slater]

Whenever a discussion like this turns to which the worst religion is you know it's overcooked. Someone please invoke Godwin's law and firmly put it to rest.

 

[mnb089mnb]

That's probably true but is just as strong a reason not to admit them

You didn't bother to reply to my post about statistics. Why?

 

[Womble98]

It's not quite computing how I should respond to this. So....

You lot are pathetic, you'll make a point and then refuse to debate it. You'll bang on about how religion is evil and all but Islam gets some kind of free pass, the concious bias you guys have is astounding.


It isn't a discussion on which religion is worse, its a discussion on why Islam by and large is not fit for the 21st century and is not fit for western democracies.

 

[mnb089mnb]

You lot are pathetic, you'll make a point and then refuse to debate it.

You didn't want to talk about statistics yesterday.

 

[Womble98]

You've got to be careful with statistics.

The percentages are nested, so you have a scenario where you say of the 64% of Malaysians who are Muslim, 86% of them believe sharia law should be implemented, and of those 62% feel apostatism should receive the death penalty. But even then it's not as simple as that as you have people who don't want full sharia law, but agree with the death penalty for apostasy.

Looking at the stats it seems that the statement that the majority of Malaysians would want to see the death penalty for changing faith is incorrect.

Fascinating post here on the subject of these statistics:
http://empethop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/a-fact-check-of-bill-maher-and-his.html

Maybe not the majority of Malaysians but the majority of Muslims in Malaysia. Still just as shocking.