Bolton

[Muzzle]

I see Bolton played their “kids” last night just 3 days after playing at Gillingham. This coming after they postponed their fixture against Donny claiming concerns over their youngsters welfare. Couldn’t make it up.
On another note I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion that Bolton will be relegated either. 60 points from 41 games isn’t such a tall order, especially with Keith Hill as manager and the players they’ve signed!

Jesus wept, you expect us to play players who one haven't trained together yet, and two some haven't played much football. I know some of you seem embittered as to the way we have done things, but blame the EFL, the rules are there and we used them. By the way, over 9,000 on tonight, we couldn't give a shit what others think (just get your facts right first), it's our club and we have tried to support them the best we can home and away

 

[Huntsman94]

Jesus wept, you expect us to play players who one haven't trained together yet, and two some haven't played much football. I know some of you seem embittered as to the way we have done things, but blame the EFL, the rules are there and we used them. By the way, over 9,000 on tonight, we couldn't give a shit what others think (just get your facts right first), it's our club and we have tried to support them the best we can home and away

Don’t start the whole “Jesus wept” to other fans. Pretty much every single supporter on here wanted you and Bury saved and we’re all made up that Bolton has been regardless of the financial structure of your deal.

However, there are clubs in this division that have been to the shit and been close to dropping very far away from the football league with the prospect of never coming back, ourselves included. If we didn’t beat Boreham Wood in the Playoffs two years ago I don’t know what would have happened to us. We’re a club that is now run very well and are delighted to be back in League One however it isn’t easy. It’s taken a ridiculous amount of hard work.

When I see you saved I’m genuinely delighted for the club and all you fans. However the Doncaster game just shows to be a farce even more when you played the kids last night just 3 days after Gillingham. Forget the EFL laws, your whole purpose to do that was focused on the health and safety of the youngsters. That’s the whole reason you messed up Doncaster’s plans, their fans plans etc yet you’re now effectively going back on everything you said. Surely you keep up the agenda and don’t play Bradford last night for the same reasons?

As mentioned, very happy we still have Bolton as a Football League Club but time for them to now get what they’re due starting with some sort of penalty for the Donny game. Did anything even happen to them about the Brentford game last season aside from Brentford getting the 3 points?

 

[DearneValleyRover]

All at Donny are happy that Bolton survived as a club but the welfare of the players bollox which it was and let’s actually get the facts correct our game wasn’t postponed not by the EFL Bolton refused to play and the lineup last night has definitely been noted. Bolton will get a points deduction for the failed Brentford game they will also get one for our none game and I’m very aware that as a club we are pressing for the 3 points and not a rearranged fixture

 

[Gassy]

I see Bolton played their “kids” last night just 3 days after playing at Gillingham. This coming after they postponed their fixture against Donny claiming concerns over their youngsters welfare. Couldn’t make it up.
On another note I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion that Bolton will be relegated either. 60 points from 41 games isn’t such a tall order, especially with Keith Hill as manager and the players they’ve signed!

I agree, but hopefully they'll be getting another points deduction for the fixture cancellation.

Did they ever get one for the Brentford fixture last season?

 

[SoutheySWFC]

I see Bolton played their “kids” last night just 3 days after playing at Gillingham. This coming after they postponed their fixture against Donny claiming concerns over their youngsters welfare. Couldn’t make it up.
On another note I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion that Bolton will be relegated either. 60 points from 41 games isn’t such a tall order, especially with Keith Hill as manager and the players they’ve signed!

They'll get more points deducted for the postponements of this and last seasons you would hope. Also most clubs play their kids in the EFL Trophy, those players signed yesterday will be way off fitness in many cases too.

Isn't it a EFL rule you can only make a certain amount of changes to the previous line up for these games anyway?

 

[Back in the DHSS]

Jesus wept, you expect us to play players who one haven't trained together yet, and two some haven't played much football. I know some of you seem embittered as to the way we have done things, but blame the EFL, the rules are there and we used them. By the way, over 9,000 on tonight, we couldn't give a shit what others think (just get your facts right first), it's our club and we have tried to support them the best we can home and away

So Bolton are following EFL rules now are they ! When did this start? Monday?

 

[gary]

Bolton should indeed be deducted more points.If not let's all play the game if our team has a few too many injuries or a bout of food poisoning breaks out within the squad!! No need to inform the opposition or the EFL.!!

 

[Muzzle]

Let me explain this AGAIN:
Firstly, bolton did NOT cancel the Brentford match, the players (with the okay from the PFA) went on strike and refused to play.
Secondly, the EFL then told Bolton to play their youngsters to fulfill the fixture, but were then told by the EFL's own compliance team, that as the under 18's and under 23's had played two days before, under health and safety and care for the young lads, they could not play them in the attempted rearranged date, and then the game could not be arranged before the end of the season.
Should we be docked points ? YES, as we could not rearrange the fixture.

Next, we then get criticised for using the EFL's own rules (whether you like it or not) for the Donny match, as our youngsters would have then played 4 matches in 11 days, which goes against their own rules.
Should we be deducted points? NO, the precedence was set by the EFL for the Brentford match, and we still have time to re-arrange the fixture before the end of the season.

The EFL have actually broken their own rules by making us play the under 18's and under 23's (not full time professionals apart from three players) to fulfill fixtures, there is also the rule regarding playing a full strength side out, which is determined by appearances and experience.

The EFL have shown themselves to not be fit for purpose as an organisation,

I'll take the critique, but you also need to look at the EFL's role in all of this

 

[joethegill]

But the Doncaster postponement wasn't done through the official channels, so how is that ok? It's like signing a player without bothering to inform the authorities, then getting stroppy when you're told you'll get a points deduction cause he played without being registered. You have to do things by the proper channels or you face the consequences. Additionally, why was it ok to play 'the kids' at Gillingham on Saturday and then again in the cup this week?

 

[DearneValleyRover]

The EFL is indefensible they have been the major cause of what has happened due to burying their heads in the sand and hoping both the Bury and Bolton situations either resolved themselves or just went away without them having to do a thing. Let’s get one thing clear though Bolton refused to play against us, you can quote the EFL rules as much as you want, the EFL did not postpone or approve the postponement of the game as a club Bolton refused to play and did so without consulting either the EFL or Doncaster Rovers

 

[Pablosammy]

Bolton fans keep writing '4 games in 11 days' as though it's something extraordinary. It's not, it's just a standard 'Sat, Tue, Sat, Tue' pattern that you get regularly in lower leagues.

Two games a week.

If players can't manage that, even at a young age, then there is something wrong with their conditioning.

 

[Liam_SWFC]

Bolton fans keep writing '4 games in 11 days' as though it's something extraordinary. It's not, it's just a standard 'Sat, Tue, Sat, Tue' pattern that you get regularly in lower leagues.

Two games a week.

If players can't manage that, even at a young age, then there is something wrong with their conditioning.

Exactly, the National League is already 9 games in and it's only just turned September, no doubt some of these teams will be containing players under 21 playing every match day. Also if anything at a younger age 2 games a week should be far easier for them than a veteran player with a record of injuries.

 

[mase]

If players can't manage that, even at a young age, then there is something wrong with their conditioning.

I'd argue if the young lads were playing other young lads of the same age level, who were also still progressing physically and mentally, rather than fully grown men able to rough them up - then you could argue they should be fine for 4 games in 2 weeks.

The youngsters don't have the conditioning to play at that schedule against players clearly physically more developed than them. To expect them to do so would be detrimental to them. How many youngsters do you see suffering form burn out when not managed properly?

You need to remember a lot of these lads are just kids, they can't even buy themselves a pint. And you want them out there on a full-time adult's schedule against grown men who are both physically and mentally superior. Sounds a bit out of order imo.

Forcing them to play at this standard, and that regularly is just going to fuck them up and ruin their careers before it's even started.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

I'd argue if the young lads were playing other young lads of the same age level, who were also still progressing physically and mentally, rather than fully grown men able to rough them up - then you could argue they should be fine for 4 games in 2 weeks.

The youngsters don't have the conditioning to play at that schedule against players clearly physically more developed than them. To expect them to do so would be detrimental to them. How many youngsters do you see suffering form burn out when not managed properly?

You need to remember a lot of these lads are just kids, they can't even buy themselves a pint. And you want them out there on a full-time adult's schedule against grown men who are both physically and mentally superior. Sounds a bit out of order imo.

Forcing them to play at this standard, and that regularly is just going to fuck them up and ruin their careers before it's even started.

Bolton were aware of that though when they stated they could fulfill their fixtures before the season started otherwise they should not have played until the Club was sold.

 

[mase]

Bolton were aware of that though when they stated they could fulfill their fixtures before the season started otherwise they should not have played until the Club was sold.

I'm not disputing that - or the merits of the actions of the club. I'm just disputing this notion that the young lads will be fine playing that schedule against fully developed men without any sort of repercussion mentally/physically.

Yes, there are some young lads out there that play fairly regularly who are of similar age - but that is because the club they play for has deemed them developed enough to be able to handle it. Just because there are examples of such players, it doesn't instantly mean all youngsters can be treated the same way. Even then, those players deemed 'ready' still need to be managed and i doubt they play 180 minutes solid a week. Youngsters need to be nurtured.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

I'm not disputing that - or the merits of the actions of the club. I'm just disputing this notion that the young lads will be fine playing that schedule against fully developed men without any sort of repercussion mentally/physically.

Yes, there are some young lads out there that play fairly regularly who are of similar age - but that is because the club they play for has deemed them developed enough to be able to handle it. Just because there are examples of such players, it doesn't instantly mean all youngsters can be treated the same way. Even then, those players deemed 'ready' still need to be managed and i doubt they play 180 minutes solid a week. Youngsters need to be nurtured.

I do get your argument although I would suppose you had youngsters of a similar age who were not in the squad on Saturday that could have been brought in for the Tuesday. The other side is that as a club you would have been fully aware of the potential problem when you stated you could fulfill your fixtures which by refusing to play you haven’t.

 

[Bee sting]

At what point this season do the EFL decide the punishment for Bolton for not playing the games against Brentford and against Doncaster. Surely it can't take that long to have a meeting and then announce what's happening, because otherwise it is not fair on the other clubs to be left in limbo.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

At what point this season do the EFL decide the punishment for Bolton for not playing the games against Brentford and against Doncaster. Surely it can't take that long to have a meeting and then announce what's happening, because otherwise it is not fair on the other clubs to be left in limbo.

We were told a matter of days not weeks on Monday

 

[T.A]

Punishment couldnt be decided until the new owners were confirmed. Should be announced soon.

 

[Luke Imp]

Is it -3 for a fixture postponement?

 

[Liam_SWFC]

Should be 3 points given to Doncaster at the very least.

 

[Muzzle]

And let's get one thing straight as well. The Friday before the Donny match, Bolton contacted the EFL telling them that as per the EFL's own rules, the youngsters could not be expected to play against donny the following week. The EFL then did not make any contact with us to discuss the matter, leaving the club to act on their own.
Donny should have been warned by both us and the EFL in regards to what was going on, we didn't and neither did the EFL

 

[Pablosammy]

I'd argue if the young lads were playing other young lads of the same age level, who were also still progressing physically and mentally, rather than fully grown men able to rough them up - then you could argue they should be fine for 4 games in 2 weeks.

The youngsters don't have the conditioning to play at that schedule against players clearly physically more developed than them. To expect them to do so would be detrimental to them. How many youngsters do you see suffering form burn out when not managed properly?

You need to remember a lot of these lads are just kids, they can't even buy themselves a pint. And you want them out there on a full-time adult's schedule against grown men who are both physically and mentally superior. Sounds a bit out of order imo.

Forcing them to play at this standard, and that regularly is just going to fuck them up and ruin their careers before it's even started.

It's a fair point, not to mention the fact that they would have been working harder than usual just to try and keep it respectable. I do have some sympathy despite what my previous posts may infer, but frankly it wasn't handled in the best way.

 

[Muzzle]

To put this topic to bed, as I suspect some of you are as frustrated as I am, especially when I feel I am having to defend the club.
Donny have been treated poorly by ourselves and the EFL, irregardless of our situation, no one was talking to them, and that is poor.
I feel we were forced into the cancellation due to the ineptness and non response from the EFL regarding the game.
The EFL needs reform, it really isn't fit to run the game, the same thing we have been saying about the FA, well, for over 40 years.
The only group who can force change are the clubs, but do the clubs want change. The underlying fact is the clubs could force the issue if they wanted but don't. So why don't they?
I suspect alot is to do with self interest, and the further you go down the football ladder (however big you are as a club), your voice further diminishes. I don't have an answer, I know what I would like to see happen, but not in my lifetime

 

[PuB]

Stop lying to yourselves that the FA or EFL are the real problem. The real problem is odious owners who fuck our clubs over without HMRC or the proper authorities doing anything about it. How far do you think the EFL or FA can go in to meddling with the running of private or publicly owned companies?

They can’t. That’s it.

 

[Shrimper92]

Stop lying to yourselves that the FA or EFL are the real problem. The real problem is odious owners who fuck our clubs over without HMRC or the proper authorities doing anything about it. How far do you think the EFL or FA can go in to meddling with the running of private or publicly owned companies?

They can’t. That’s it.

The EFL could do more though, like auditing financial reports and regular checks which I don't think they do.

 

[Marked Ox]

The EFL could do more though, like auditing financial reports and regular checks which I don't think they do.

I think the French League have detailed annual financial audits and they act on them by relegating clubs back into the regional leagues if they don't meet financial rules.

 

[Muzzle]

Stop lying to yourselves that the FA or EFL are the real problem. The real problem is odious owners who fuck our clubs over without HMRC or the proper authorities doing anything about it. How far do you think the EFL or FA can go in to meddling with the running of private or publicly owned companies?

They can’t. That’s it.

Stop kidding yourself. Their own chief exec said Anderson was doing a great job, then said he spoke to Anderson and was assurred he had enough money until the end of the season. The EFL are guilty of not following their own processes. You have to remember we were not in any debt as the previous owner had written it all off, the issue was the club was losing money, and the new owner didn't have a pot to piss in to stem the tide, something the EFL should have checked on

 

[Marked Ox]

Any news on when the disciplinary hearing over missed games is happening? Or even if it is happening?

 

[Muzzle]

Think they are more pre-occupied with boro suing them