Coronavirus and League 2

[chipmunx]

So if you were to apply his logic in a literal sense, you'd end up with a 17 team Premier League and 27 team Championship! I mean he can't have it both ways, right?

As EFL rules and regulations say a maximum 72 teams in the EFL that would make things interesting???

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

As EFL rules and regulations say a maximum 72 teams in the EFL that would make things interesting???

Convenient for the mental gymnast that is Stuart Webber to proceed and say "Well if there's no room at the inn we might as well stay in the Premier League then."

Brian Clough was right. Chairmen, Directors and Executives are one of the worst things about football.

 

[AdamStag]

As EFL rules and regulations say a maximum 72 teams in the EFL that would make things interesting???

Well there’s obviously the one space vacated by bury.

The league have stated they’re happy to have promotion/relegation from the conference also.

You’re up either way, it’s just what they do with Stevenage/Harrogate.

 

[chipmunx]

Well there’s obviously the one space vacated by bury.

The league have stated they’re happy to have promotion/relegation from the conference also.

You’re up either way, it’s just what they do with Stevenage/Harrogate.

Yeah - it was more a comment regarding the championship ending with 27 clubs and why it wouldn't work - they'd have needed to relegate Stevenage and Macclesfield and not promote anyone from the NL to stay within 72 total clubs.

 

[AdamStag]

I don’t think normal rules apply currently anyway, if IFAB are talking about changing the lengths of half’s and allowing more subs etc there’s no reason why the league can’t be equally flexible.

The FL are slightly less retarded than the conference board, but there’s not much in it

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I did get the impression from the statement our CEO put on our website (rather than rushing onto TV and radio..) that he'd accept the season being played to a finish but expressed concerns about playing at neutral venues which as it turned out quite a few clubs had due to the worries about losing more through advertising... which just about sums up how much money talks!

Just shows it wasn't really down to health and sporting fairness...

We aren't exactly in a great position but I think a lot of money is owned to the Pozzos so unless they pulled out we'd probably be ok and there are a few sellable assets in the squad.

I mean they might have not played well but a Doucouré or Pereyra will command a fee somewhere abroad.

Sarr had a great game on telly v Liverpool and is young so that could attract bigger clubs.

Quite frankly we could do with cutting the wage bill down and given there isn't likely to be a lot of money for clubs to spend in the "summer" most of these clubs will probably be in the relegation area next season....when that happens.

Norwich also furloughed their staff saying it had to be done to cut costs..

I always thought part of the reason why they didn't want to spend that much was to ensure a long term future even if they went down.

Maybe its not quite as rosy as it seemed..

Quite agree about Brighton - they must have no faith in the same manager they gave a new contract to only months before.

And they are still 2 points ahead of 3 teams and 4 ahead of Villa (albeit they have a game in hand) so they still have a very good chance of staying up.

If this had been 15-20 years ago everyone would have accepted the circumstances and even the season would have been voided totally or the season stopped with relegation and promotion counting.

Some sponsors are very lucrative to clubs as well. For example Emirates will have had Arsenal by the balls and likewise American Express with Brighton. It's such a shame football is how it is these days. The problem is, unlike Germany who never had a Hillsborough moment, Sky and their money struck when we were coming off the back of domestic hooliganism, Heysel, Bradford and Hillsborough. The game was at a low. The Taylor Report mentioned to clubs about all seater stadia which would enable clubs to raise admission costs for the price of a reserved seat and raising the profile of the game to the middle-classes, which it's sadly done. I think, in 1992, fans wanted that new experience money could bring because of how dark the 80s were. But a by-product of us accepting this change for the game's health and our supposed safety was extreme capitalism and extreme monetisation of our game. It's why moderates in large cities/towns such as Brighton, Southampton and Reading who preferred rugby, cricket and theatre are now flocking to the game as it's cleaner, family-friendly and sanitised. Whereas the old-school crowds have felt priced out of the game. My old man is a Liverpool fan who lived a mile from the ground as a kid. He always dreamed of seeing them win the league again as I was growing up. But the owners proposing to charge fans £77 a ticket for the Main Stand was the last straw for him, it wasn't the club he fell in love with and that's why he couldn't give a shit if Liverpool won the league this year or not.

Watford appear to be in a sense of purgatory. This is probably the second best era for you in your history. But then you question to yourself, bar making an FA Cup Final, what have you actually achieved bar a few big wins against top sides? Have you taken yourselves as far as you can realistically go? I mean everyone cites to Leicester as the pinnacle of possibility, but that genuinely was a longshot. There's not much you can do without severely jeopardising your financial health to take yourselves to the next level. Whereas under Elton John you came close to winning the Cup, League and had a run in Europe.

Re: Norwich. Yes. BT Sport really like giving a pedestal to executives like Paul Barber, Dan Ashworth and Stuart Webber because they gush over the corporate speak about people who haven't played the game implementing philosophies and claiming they know what's best compared to the fans. But Webber did say exactly that before a match on BT Sport! He said they'd achieved promotion ahead of schedule but, due to debts accrued from their previous stint, they wouldn't be spending big in the window and they wouldn't sack Farke if they went down either. So it just reeks of opportunism. This is a get out of jail card to give them a crack at big spending next year to consolidate themselves, if they have the facility to do that after the Sky rebates of course.

Brighton definitely have no faith. Sacking Potter will set him up for life but be a massive blow. You'd imagine Barber's decision to give him that contract will see him chopped too. And Ashworth, the deplorable corporate suit that he is, will want to wash his hands dry of any organisation or establishment that isn't "elite" like his player performance plan he was a fan of.

Of course it would've been, but too much money rides on it. I'm biased given Crewe's situation, but even if we were poor, I'd always like to see success rewarded over failure if null and void was off the table. Sadly, there's a strong loser mentality in this country that likes to reward failure over success instead of learning from their mistakes and where they went wrong. So we're very much at an impasse for the coming weeks as long as the likes of Barber and Webber hold the Premier League to ransom.

 

[Super_horns]

Yes - that is a good point.

Really a decent cup run and mid -table is the best we and many clubs can hope for without some of kind of Leicester freak season as you suggest.

Its nice for a while but so is a good promotion season - albeit that isn't guaranteed.

Of course in Germany the clubs are half run by the clubs so they have a strong say but even there you hear of games being moved against their will and ticket prices going up.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Yes - that is a good point.

Really a decent cup run and mid -table is the best we and many clubs can hope for without some of kind of Leicester freak season as you suggest.

Its nice for a while but so is a good promotion season - albeit that isn't guaranteed.

Of course in Germany the clubs are half run by the clubs so they have a strong say but even there you hear of games being moved against their will and ticket prices going up.

I mean Sheffield United are having a dream season but let's assume the season finished as normal, but say they finished outside the Champions League places and Gareth Southgate has a disastrous Euros and gets the boot. The FA are only going to turn to one man aren't they?

And then that squad gets overloaded with imports with a new manager and they lose their team spirit and they're back to being in the pack shit-scared of relegation like the rest of them.

I've read an article this morning on Bayern and Hannover's owners wanting the 50+1 rule scrapped so they can attract more investment. Quite why Hannover want to do it is unclear given they've been Bundesliga mid-table at best and 2. Bundesliga at worst. But Bayern, with no debts, know the potential for blue chip companies to have stakes in them could make them become the richest club in Europe if the restrictive (in their eyes) 50+1 rule is abolished. It'd make them a bigger draw than PL clubs, Juve, PSG and the Spanish Big 2.

Just like our league pyramid is the envy of the football world (and suits like Ashworth and Harvey want to ruin it because they think other leagues with B teams in them are better), the German ownership model is the envy of the football world. Especially when you've seen some of the shysters and spivs who own, or have owned, clubs in this country in the last 20 years!

 

[Richard Cranium]

The game is fucked beyond repair.

 

[Super_horns]

Peterborough chairman gaining some support:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260994668331962375

 

[Richard Cranium]

Can just imagine what that c*** would be saying if they were sat 2nd

 

[Bee sting]

So it looks like L1 will get their way and carry on. If all players, staff and all else have to be tested twice a week will their results be prioritised over NHS and front line workers? Also, if 1 player proves positive then the rules are that everyone around them has to go into 14 day self isolation, so what happens if they play 1 game and then someone shows up as positive, their next couple of games will have to be postponed so when will they fit them in. I would rather the season just ended regardless of where my team finishes. Lives mean more than leisure, especially when it involves overpaid Footballers.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Peterborough chairman gaining some support:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260994668331962375

As Richard Cranium says, you just know if he could get promotion via PPG tomorrow he wouldn't be doing this. I'm sick of him spitting his dummy out. He's one of the worst owners in the country. His philosophy is to sign 15 players each season and freeze half of them out the side when they're not good enough by Christmas. Many others are jettisoned when promotion isn't delivered. It's throwing shit to the wall in the hope it sticks. He's got through a ton of managers very very quickly too. It's like he's playing Football Manager but in real life. He's a more stable and slightly more eloquent Glenn Tamplin.

It's an alliance of bankrolling owners and underachieving big city sides who'll throw their toys out of the pram in the hope of getting their own way. So what if Rochdale, Wycombe or Burton could lose even more money playing BCD matches in the third tier of English football, they've got the money to piss up the wall so they feel entitled to complete a season when many clubs in the league simply don't have the resources to in the current climate. Makes me laugh Ipswich are a part of this alliance in the vain hope they can make the playoffs. Lads you're gonna be in League One next season anyway, what's the point of you being passionate about continuing when it may well lose you even more money?

 

[Greenacres]

So it looks like L1 will get their way and carry on. If all players, staff and all else have to be tested twice a week will their results be prioritised over NHS and front line workers? Also, if 1 player proves positive then the rules are that everyone around them has to go into 14 day self isolation, so what happens if they play 1 game and then someone shows up as positive, their next couple of games will have to be postponed so when will they fit them in. I would rather the season just ended regardless of where my team finishes. Lives mean more than leisure, especially when it involves overpaid Footballers.

The 19/20 season will finish about half way through the time the 20/21 season should be running, and that will suffer a suspension when the second wave arrives and finish around the time the 21/22 season should commence...eventually we will get to a stage where a complete season does not take place...alternatively scrap this one and we have a fair chance of a meaningful 20/21 season, give or take!

 

[The Terminator]

As Richard Cranium says, you just know if he could get promotion via PPG tomorrow he wouldn't be doing this. I'm sick of him spitting his dummy out. He's one of the worst owners in the country. His philosophy is to sign 15 players each season and freeze half of them out the side when they're not good enough by Christmas. Many others are jettisoned when promotion isn't delivered. It's throwing shit to the wall in the hope it sticks. He's got through a ton of managers very very quickly too. It's like he's playing Football Manager but in real life. He's a more stable and slightly more eloquent Glenn Tamplin.

It's an alliance of bankrolling owners and underachieving big city sides who'll throw their toys out of the pram in the hope of getting their own way. So what if Rochdale, Wycombe or Burton could lose even more money playing BCD matches in the third tier of English football, they've got the money to piss up the wall so they feel entitled to complete a season when many clubs in the league simply don't have the resources to in the current climate. Makes me laugh Ipswich are a part of this alliance in the vain hope they can make the playoffs. Lads you're gonna be in League One next season anyway, what's the point of you being passionate about continuing when it may well lose you even more money?

Someone tweeted him the other day and said if PPG worked in his favour he'd be all in favour of finishing the season now.

His response was something along the lines of: "You have to believe me when I say, I wouldn't want the season to end with us going up on PPG, I'd still be campaigning for the season to continue."

He's a liar. But like most business people who've done well for themselves - You have to be damn good at being a liar and shitting on those below you from a big height.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Andy Pilley of Fleetwood saying he's in favour of continuing as the refunds to fans he'd have to give out would cripple the club.

What a load of tosh, even though they were all disillusioned Blackpool and Man United fans jumping on a bandwagon, I highly doubt even they'd take a refund given the circumstances...

 

[chipmunx]

Andy Pilley of Fleetwood saying he's in favour of continuing as the refunds to fans he'd have to give out would cripple the club.

What a load of tosh, even though they were all disillusioned Blackpool and Man United fans jumping on a bandwagon, I highly doubt even they'd take a refund given the circumstances...

he's also stupid if he thinks the fact that playing the matches behind closed doors would make any difference to the fans being entitled to a refund - not that most would want one - but his argument is a load of rubbish...

 

[Indian Dan]

Hardly got many fans to reimburse, either.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Andy Pilley of Fleetwood saying he's in favour of continuing as the refunds to fans he'd have to give out would cripple the club.

Andy Pilley of Fleetwood saying he's in favour of continuing as the refunds to fans he'd have to give out would cripple the club.

What a load of tosh, even though they were all disillusioned Blackpool and Man United fans jumping on a bandwagon, I highly doubt even they'd take a refund given the circumstances...

He has asked Fleetwood fans and this is their clear response? if not this is all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

he's also stupid if he thinks the fact that playing the matches behind closed doors would make any difference to the fans being entitled to a refund - not that most would want one - but his argument is a load of rubbish...

Surely if it is BCD season ticket holders would be assuaged by access to ifollow? But this is all academic, there won’t be any remaining season unless we wait until 2021 or 2022.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The more I think of it, the more I think this alliance is going to evaporate quicker than a puddle in the Sahara.

I saw a picture this morning of Fleetwood Town's pitch which has been ripped up as of yesterday. Now it may have been ripped up last week, but my guess is that it takes 8 weeks for a pitch to be playable? So once they had a playable pitch for their home games, we're talking a mid-July start? Can't see that happening at all.

The cynic in me is suggesting this is pressure by MacAnthony, Pilley and Oxford's owners to force the EFL into adopting a one legged semi and final playoff for themselves and Wycombe. The moment that can be voted on, they'd immediately support a proposal to end the season if it gives them a 25% shot at going up. The fact that three of the four biggest clubs in that league are 1. Going to be royally shat on by PPG in Portsmouth's case and 2. are going absolutely nowhere if the season is curtailed today, means it was easy to get them on board. And we all know big city clubs fanbases at this level love to dominate the Twitter airwaves with disgust when they don't get their own way. But the moment this option is proposed, and given how every club is acting in self-interest, I'd expect only the Bottom 3 (and Bolton and Southend are really clutching at straws), Portsmouth, Ipswich and Sunderland to want to continue the season. Maybe Doncaster too but they've been very quiet regarding their view on the season.

Ipswich fans probably won't be aggrieved if the season gets cancelled. They're sinking without trace anyway. I was baffled to see they even wanted the season continue. But then I saw there's a rumour that Paul Lambert, already likely to be fired for failing to deliver promotion, could incur a reduced payout for not winning promotion as per the terms of his contract. If they wanted to sack him in the case of an abandoned season, they'd have to pay significantly more!

Whatever happens today, I expect plenty of backstabbing, Twitter meltdowns and empty threats of legal action that'll probably be laughed out of Court. At least League Two is a lot easier to sort out. I know Vale said they wanted to continue the season, but that's completely understandable, yet they've also gone about it the right way by understanding clubs that don't want to complete it, rather than take a crass view like Pilley did of basically demanding poorer clubs who can't afford BCD games to forfeit matches. The future of community football clubs is much more important than a slim chance of promotion, and that's why I can't stand bankrolling nutjobs like him.

 

[Indian Dan]

As a Swindon fan I should be laying into Oxford for the stance they’re taking - but, as I’ve said all along, they are doing what all of us would do in a similar position. Doing the best they can for their own club.

They probably know it’ll go down to ppg in the end and want allies in voting for their preferred method.

On the pitch scenario - do clubs actually know which other clubs have dug theirs up? Ours is gone, I know that. Maybe for those that want a playing conclusion should play out an enlarged play off format.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

As a Swindon fan I should be laying into Oxford for the stance they’re taking - but, as I’ve said all along, they are doing what all of us would do in a similar position. Doing the best they can for their own club.

They probably know it’ll go down to ppg in the end and want allies in voting for their preferred method.

On the pitch scenario - do clubs actually know which other clubs have dug theirs up? Ours is gone, I know that. Maybe for those that want a playing conclusion should play out an enlarged play off format.

The fact Oxford were listed on DMAC's statement would hint that the vote is going to be on a straight PPG model which will see Wycombe promoted if it was passed. And going off what you've just posted, one of their fans on Twitter said it was very shrewd of Oxford to align themselves with DMAC and the others as they know if they don't pass the straight PPG model, they can lobby for a weighted PPG proposal which would place them higher in the league table.

Oxford know if they can disrupt straight PPG from being passed, they can then present their weighted PPG idea but also have an added caveat of the one legged semi and final playoff format to be adopted, of which they'll benefit from along with Peterborough and Fleetwood, with Wycombe joining them. The meltdowns, if this happens, from Portsmouth and Sunderland and their fans would be legendary. And you just know the likes of Oxford, Fleetwood and Peterborough definitely wouldn't want to face the two biggest budget teams in Portsmouth and Sunderland in any sort of playoff either if they had the chance to shut the door on them in this fashion!

An enlarged playoff is out of the question in my eyes. It goes against the EFLs regulations so I'm led to believe and it'd be farcical to have 7th or 8th place promoted anyway. I get there are mitigating circumstances, but how can you have a 6 team playoff? If it's like the National League system, which two sides would get byes? They'd be squabbling over that next! Is a 6 team mini league justifiable in the current climate? I'd say no besides, they'd all have to be neutral venue games as no one is going to justify 10 games to see someone scrap for 1 promotion place! Do they go to an 8 team playoff which is why they got Ipswich on board, including Doncaster in the process? That'd be a farce seeing a side as low as 10th getting promotion!

I'm unsure with the pitch situation. My mate who supports Bristol Rovers said their pitch has been dug up this week. I know the likes of us, Walsall and Tranmere did ours very, very quickly too. Haven't Plymouth dug theirs up very recently too? It'd be very difficult for a lot of sides to get games on with ripped up pitches if they were done in the last week or two. Which is why the season restarting just won't happen.

 

[Luke Imp]

The self interest is perfectly shown by the lack of Coventry or Rotherham on the list as well (not that I blame any self interest). A little surprised no Wycombe on the list given their position and a game in hand.

It's no surprise either that those 6 are the biggest and/or amongst the higher payers in the L1. Yes they're well placed, but they can also afford the additional costs (or I suppose can't afford not to go up...).

They've got a slight sniff of the PO system remaining if the season is played out on a PPG basis and four of the six will be happy with that (maybe not Posh, though I don't think unless it's weighted PPG?). By saying what they have, it puts a compromise on the table.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The self interest is perfectly shown by the lack of Coventry or Rotherham on the list as well (not that I blame any self interest). A little surprised no Wycombe on the list given their position and a game in hand.

It's no surprise either that those 6 are the biggest and/or amongst the higher payers in the L1. Yes they're well placed, but they can also afford the additional costs (or I suppose can't afford not to go up...).

They've got a slight sniff of the PO system remaining if the season is played out on a PPG basis and four of the six will be happy with that (maybe not Posh, though I don't think unless it's weighted PPG?). By saying what they have, it puts a compromise on the table.

Wycombe would go up on straight PPG with no playoff as they'll finish 3rd. I think that's how the league want to end the season. So I'm not surprised they're not party to this statement.

MacAnthony said 12 months ago if they didn't go up this year, he'd stand down and sell up. We all know he's an attention seeker, egomaniac and bullshitter. But what if he stuck to his word for once given they've done sod all in League One for the last 7 years?

A weighted PPG first proposed by Oxford with a playoff has Oxford 3rd, Fleetwood and Peterborough 4th and 5th (can't remember which order but it doesn't matter anyway) and Wycombe 6th. I believe if a playoff is possible, this is the one that'd pass if they could get it on the table as it'd remove Portsmouth and Sunderland from the playoff scenario. And given two of those clubs have never played in the second tier, one hasn't played up there since the 90s and Peterborough have bottled it for years, I'm sure they'd all love an arrangement like that...

This is why I expect a lot of backstabbing to happen today and I expect Portsmouth and Sunderland to really be shafted by DMAC and his cronies. Not that I have much sympathy of course...

 

[Luke Imp]

It'll only take one club to break from that '6', and that block vote will be broken. If those 6 vote the same way, that leaves ~73% of the division left with 75% needed.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

It'll only take one club to break from that '6', and that block vote will be broken. If those 6 vote the same way, that leaves ~73% of the division left with 75% needed.

You get a feeling MacAnthony and Marcus Evans have done something behind the leagues back and, once the best scenario involving a prematurely concluded season that favours Peterborough is realised, Ipswich will be that vote...

 

[Boletus Edulis]

It'll only take one club to break from that '6', and that block vote will be broken. If those 6 vote the same way, that leaves ~73% of the division left with 75% needed.

I notice Mr Imp that both of our teams have a player who is highly vulnerable with type 1 diabetes, who surely would be very unhappy about playing at the moment.

 

[Luke Imp]

I notice Mr Imp that both of our teams have a player who is highly vulnerable with type 1 diabetes, who surely would be very unhappy about playing at the moment.

Yep, although Coker's currently on loan at Cambridge until the end of the season and is free to leave so he'd not get any game time here anyway (I think he's played once this season).

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Yep, although Coker's currently on loan at Cambridge until the end of the season and is free to leave so he'd not get any game time here anyway (I think he's played once this season).

Whereas Niall Canavan has played nearly all games and is probably our most dependable defender.