European Union Referendum

[Pliny Harris]

Some of the opinions I'm hearing are very dispiriting and hard to answer in any way other than in blank stares. Going onsite yesterday to a development in Goole I heard leaving the EU is "the best thing that ever happened". The qualification was that we wouldn't get getting the Euro currency now (???) and that a recession's fine because they've survived previous ones and future ones may as well come as soon and frequently as possible. By that point I'm convinced some people are genuine political nihilists with no will or want for a better state of affairs. Listening on, the conversation then flashed from how we should allow Scotland to fuck off, cut it out to sea and watch it sink because they'd be doomed on their own, how none of this argument was about immigrants but nurses should be able to wear crosses when niqabs are permitted "cultural wear" (it took a while for them to remember what the exact story was but they felt it they eventually pieced it together well enough), to how they were filling in a form where they had to class themselves as "British" and there was no "English" option despite there being a "Welsh" one, all summarised neatly within a few minutes. Katie Hopkins through a paper shredder. If these are the vox pops we should be paying most attention to and courting as much as possible then strike me dead and leave me out for the crows.

 

[Camborne Gills]

I'm not sure what to say to you Camborne. You're experience and views are so opposed and different to mine. I'm a child of immigrants and see immigration as positive. You see if as something to be feared and opposed.

I understand where you are coming from. I am not totally opposed, after all, we needed immigrants to come in after the 2nd World War, and obviously we welcomed many refugees as well. I lived in the London area until I was 13, so I lived in an area with many West Indian and Asian immigrant families.

I just happen to think that uncontrolled immigration puts too much pressure on schools, hospitals etc, and the country cannot cope with an increase in population on this scale.

 

[silkyman]

The net population increase last year was about 0.8%. Of that about 0.55% was from immigration of which about half was EU migration.

You've noted to (not actually, because they lied to you) put a stop to a swarming influx of about 0.3% of the population. If our services and infrastructure can't cope with an increase of 0.3% then it's something WE'VE done very wrong.

Rather strangely, the areas with the most migration, London and the SE were more favourable to remain and the areas with the least, The North East and Wales who only saw a 0.23% total population growth, voted leave. On those numbers, as an example, we put our daughter down for three local primary schools, that would be an influx of one pupil out of all three of them!

 

[Abertawe]

The net population increase last year was about 0.8%. Of that about 0.55% was from immigration of which about half was EU migration.

You've noted to (not actually, because they lied to you) put a stop to a swarming influx of about 0.3% of the population. If our services and infrastructure can't cope with an increase of 0.3% then it's something WE'VE done very wrong.

Rather strangely, the areas with the most migration, London and the SE were more favourable to remain and the areas with the least, The North East and Wales who only saw a 0.23% total population growth, voted leave. On those numbers, as an example, we put our daughter down for three local primary schools, that would be an influx of one pupil out of all three of them!

You're banding percentages about yet fail to examine what those percentages mean. You also rather blindly cite Non EU migration as a fuse for your argument.

Non EU migrants can only arrive here on a High Value (Tier 1), Skilled (Tier 2), Youth Mobility (Tier 5) or a Student (Tier 4) visa. That means only highly skilled, those looking to invest within the UK, those sponsored by a company/university or students who pay an absolute premium to study here can rock up.

Net migration from the EU levels out annually at about 184,000. To put that into perspective for you, that's 3.5 times the population of Macclesfield every year. If you don't think that number places a stress on services you're off ya rocker. The vast majority of migrants from the EU are low-skilled. I have many friends who are here from the EU but I'm able to look at the situation with a balanced perspective and see the wood from the trees.

It's totally nonsensical to have a policy whereby 500m have the freedom to simply jump on a boat/plane/train and set up camp within the UK. Immigration is imperative to the prosperity of this country but it has to be achieved in a purposeful manner which doesn't discriminate based on nationality and doesn't result in the let down young people of this country being undercut in the manual labour job market.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

I take it we've all seen this? Bloody northerners...

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/747761311358955521?s=09

Disgusting.

 

[Abertawe]

I take it we've all seen this? Bloody northerners...

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/747761311358955521?s=09

Disgusting.

A product of their environment from which the government is responsible.

 

[Benji]

What's the difference between 500m people having the option to move to the UK and 60m people having the option to move to London? Isn't it just scale?

Just trying to build some better understanding.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

A product of their environment from which the government is responsible.

There's always someone else to blame for being a racist bigot isn't there?

 

[Abertawe]

There's always someone else to blame for being a racist bigot isn't there?

No, there's always underlying factors to just about anything in life. Doesn't change that people must be accountable for their actions but that sort of mentality doesn't just appear outta nowhere. Racism was the invention of the elite let's not forget.

 

[Benji]

Just seen Farage antagonising the rest of the MEPs in Brussels. Appears to be trying to drive them to give us a bad deal so he can blame them for our inevitable struggles in the near future.

 

[Abertawe]

Just seen Farage antagonising the rest of the MEPs in Brussels. Appears to be trying to drive them to give us a bad deal so he can blame them for our inevitable struggles in the near future.

You've obviously "just seen" a 5 second snippet then, otherwise, you'd have seen the bit where he asked for the UK to have a close working relationship with the EU.

 

[Benji]

You've obviously "just seen" a 5 second snippet then, otherwise, you'd have seen the bit where he asked for the UK to have a close working relationship with the EU.

Maybe that's the 5 second snippet you saw because there were multiple swipes at the EU in the 7-8 minute clip I watched.

 

[Abertawe]

Maybe that's the 5 second snippet you saw because there were multiple swipes at the EU in the 7-8 minute clip I watched.

Yeah, legitimate swipes. As borne out by the will of the British people. We've got our country back, deal with it.

 

[Benji]

Well if childish teasing was in 6ft letters on a Leave bus somewhere, at least you can rest happy that they have finally delivered one promise.

 

[silkyman]

You're banding percentages about yet fail to examine what those percentages mean. You also rather blindly cite Non EU migration as a fuse for your argument.

Non EU migrants can only arrive here on a High Value (Tier 1), Skilled (Tier 2), Youth Mobility (Tier 5) or a Student (Tier 4) visa. That means only highly skilled, those looking to invest within the UK, those sponsored by a company/university or students who pay an absolute premium to study here can rock up.

Net migration from the EU levels out annually at about 184,000. To put that into perspective for you, that's 3.5 times the population of Macclesfield every year. If you don't think that number places a stress on services you're off ya rocker. The vast majority of migrants from the EU are low-skilled. I have many friends who are here from the EU but I'm able to look at the situation with a balanced perspective and see the wood from the trees.

It's totally nonsensical to have a policy whereby 500m have the freedom to simply jump on a boat/plane/train and set up camp within the UK. Immigration is imperative to the prosperity of this country but it has to be achieved in a purposeful manner which doesn't discriminate based on nationality and doesn't result in the let down young people of this country being undercut in the manual labour job market.

The vote was only about EU migration. So if we're talking about population growth in relation to the EU, then you have to remove natural growth and non EU growth. The only part of the equation you will be able to change is that EU number. And comparing it to one town is completely misleading, because of course, if 184,000 people came marching up the M6 to settle in Macclesfield, it would crush the town. But they don't. They spread out. 184,000 out of 61milion isn't very many, but as with any lie, damn lie and statistic, you can make it sound like a 'big scary number', which has been one of exit's favourite tactics. Use 'big scary numbers' with no context. (Because £350m a week sounds a lot more frightening than 'Less than 1% of total government spend')

500m people have been able to move here for a long time, and they haven't. There's better and worse off areas of the US, too. And 325m people can all live and work there. But they don't.

What is this ridiculous idea that every single member of the EU is, at some point, going to up sticks and move into your nan's spare room?

 

[silkyman]

We've got our country back, deal with it.

My favourite bit about the 'Shut up, we won, fuck off' brigade, is that the petition which they hate so much was started by a worried Leave campaigner, they had been getting their paranoid pencil based excuses in early and Farage had already said that he would basically not accept a result if it was for remain as close as it turned out to be.

If there was one thing that Leave were never going to do if they lost. One thing they promised that they wouldn't do and set the wheels in motion NOT to do.... Was fucking 'Deal With It'

(Despite the fact that another chance of a referendum down the line was hardwired in to a Remain win, because we could have had one at any time, but if we do leave, then it's game over with no chance of return)

So no. I'll not 'deal with it'. I'll point out Leave's lies, Leave's xenophobia, Leave's outright racism and Leave's hypocrisy until such time as it's all over and impossible to come back from. Because a gnats chuff shy of half the population of the UK didn't want this, and people who thought they did are already regretting it.

 

[silkyman]

Well if childish teasing was in 6ft letters on a Leave bus somewhere, at least you can rest happy that they have finally delivered one promise.

How many Brexitters does it take to change a lightbulb?

What lightbulb? We never said there was a lightbulb.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

I take it we've all seen this? Bloody northerners...
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/747761311358955521?s=09
Disgusting.

I'm sorry, but that has to be acting, somebody hired in some false flag bullshit. Nobody does that in real life.

 

[blade1889]

How many Brexitters does it take to change a lightbulb?

What lightbulb? We never said there was a lightbulb.

Depends how many it takes to have an argument about it being an energy saving lightbulb as enforced by those pesky EU laws!

 

[silkyman]

I genuinely saw someone on Twitter citing incandescent lightbulbs as a reason.

Ok... You burn through 100w of energy in your bathroom. I'll light my entire house with it with my LEDs, that'll last 10 years.

 

[mnb089mnb]

We've got our country back, deal with it.

UK is still a member of the EU. And it doesn't appear in any hurry to leave.

 

[mnb089mnb]

You're banding percentages about yet fail to examine what those percentages mean. You also rather blindly cite Non EU migration as a fuse for your argument.

Non EU migrants can only arrive here on a High Value (Tier 1), Skilled (Tier 2), Youth Mobility (Tier 5) or a Student (Tier 4) visa. That means only highly skilled, those looking to invest within the UK, those sponsored by a company/university or students who pay an absolute premium to study here can rock up.

Net migration from the EU levels out annually at about 184,000. To put that into perspective for you, that's 3.5 times the population of Macclesfield every year. If you don't think that number places a stress on services you're off ya rocker. The vast majority of migrants from the EU are low-skilled. I have many friends who are here from the EU but I'm able to look at the situation with a balanced perspective and see the wood from the trees.

It's totally nonsensical to have a policy whereby 500m have the freedom to simply jump on a boat/plane/train and set up camp within the UK. Immigration is imperative to the prosperity of this country but it has to be achieved in a purposeful manner which doesn't discriminate based on nationality and doesn't result in the let down young people of this country being undercut in the manual labour job market.

The referendum was on EU membership, not immigration.

We could end up with the UK out of the EU but maintaining the free movement of people to ensure we can still have free trade.

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

The referendum was on EU membership, not immigration.

We could end up with the UK out of the EU but maintaining the free movement of people to ensure we can still have free trade.

This here.

Many out voters seem to think Freedom of Movement will cease. It certainly won't as I am 95% certain a Tory Government would not risk being blocked access to the single market. If the public don't like it, then they can vote UKIP at the ballot box at the next GE who will no doubt take us out of the EEA and end freedom of movement (and end up trading under WTO rules). However, the Tories know that now we are out of the EU, UKIP will have less of a voice (no more Youtube video's of Farage in the EU Parliment), so the risk of UKIP getting into Parliament would be minimal.

Also not all of the Out voters would of voted out on Immigration grounds (but the vast majority would have), and that the FPTP system would restrict UKIP ever getting enough MPs to even hold the balance of power.

The only glimmer of hope UKIP have is if the Labour Party self destructs completely, The Tory government make a complete pigs ear of negotiations to the point where their voters and a large number of their MPs deflect to UKIP, and UKIP somehow remain in the Media as a big voice, campaigning against Freedom of Movement. If anyone says this is a likely scenario, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is for a high stakes bet that it won't happen in my lifetime.

People say Big companies will not allow the EU to turn down a deal without FoM. Those companies will not have a say in the matter, as it will do more damage to the UK, than it will do to those EU co-operations, as they will still be able to sell to us, especially cars as a large proportion of our vehicle trade comes from within the EU and the consumers will pay the price.

Also if you think the turmoil in the markets and the value of the pound now are bad, reverting to WTO could see the value of the pound fall way below the dollar, which will force large amounts of companies in the FTSE 350 either move onto the EU continent or go bankrupt.

The only time a FTA with Germany, France etc without Freedom of Movement will occur is if at some stage the EU collapsed completely and breaks up.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

It sounds to me like you still want all the privileges, but none of the obligations. "I want to divorce the bitch, My Lord, but I'd still like to fuck her on a regular basis." It's not gonna work like that, lads.

 

[mnb089mnb]

 

[mnb089mnb]

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...halal-butchers-11535781#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Molotov cocktail thrown at Halal butcher's in Walsall

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Haven't learned a fucking thing, have we, English press? It's your funeral.

 

[Red]

What's the difference between 500m people having the option to move to the UK and 60m people having the option to move to London? Isn't it just scale?

Just trying to build some better understanding.

I don't get it and the punchline was awful.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

What's the difference between 500m people having the option to move to the UK and 60m people having the option to move to London? Isn't it just scale?

Are the 60m moving to London, then?
https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

 

[CEngelbrecht]