Is it time for a 'Managerial Merry go round' thread?

[Floreat Salopia]

No real surprise about Shrewsbury. Odd appointment. In spite of what Floreat says, from the outside many people picked Shrewsbury to struggle, so I never thought they were going to be bursting into the top 6, but ultimately the run of results they have been on is enough for any manager.

Ironically, one of their few wins was against us but even then it was as poor a Shrewsbury team as I can recall playing for a good few years. They're often very strong at home.

I’ve never known a season like this one with regards to injuries. We once had 13 out at once and even now we still have 9/10 out. That shouldn’t be used as an excuse with how poor we are currently, but it has been an hindrance for us.

We’ve got the main core of players from last season still here and with a bit of luck, we could have been pushing the top 6 last season but again, injuries put that one to bed when they hit much more frequently in March. I know you’re only as good as your league position suggests, I get that, but this group of players really are underperforming and Matt Taylor was responsible for that. We’ve scored 18 goals in 28 games, that’s embarrassing at any level of football. The way he set us up was extremely negative and he seemed to be more worried about the opposition than us.

The club needs a lift. A big lift as the supporters know that we’ve been stagnant for too long now. Ever since Hurst walked out and left us for Ipswich it’s been shit. Truly shit. I know we’re highly unlikely to find a loan trio of Dean Henderson, Ben Godfrey and Carlton Morris in the same season again, but us Salop fans just want to see some attacking football a and for us to have more possession again. We know we’d get that under Paul Hurst. Who knows, lightening might just strike twice again. I mean, it worked when Graham Turner returned to the club back in 2010.

 

[dannylad01]

I’ve never known a season like this one with regards to injuries. We once had 13 out at once and even now we still have 9/10 out. That shouldn’t be used as an excuse with how poor we are currently, but it has been an hindrance for us.

We’ve got the main core of players from last season still here and with a bit of luck, we could have been pushing the top 6 last season but again, injuries put that one to bed when they hit much more frequently in March. I know you’re only as good as your league position suggests, I get that, but this group of players really are underperforming and Matt Taylor was responsible for that. We’ve scored 18 goals in 28 games, that’s embarrassing at any level of football. The way he set us up was extremely negative and he seemed to be more worried about the opposition than us.

The club needs a lift. A big lift as the supporters know that we’ve been stagnant for too long now. Ever since Hurst walked out and left us for Ipswich it’s been shit. Truly shit. I know we’re highly unlikely to find a loan trio of Dean Henderson, Ben Godfrey and Carlton Morris in the same season again, but us Salop fans just want to see some attacking football a and for us to have more possession again. We know we’d get that under Paul Hurst. Who knows, lightening might just strike twice again. I mean, it worked when Graham Turner returned to the club back in 2010.

I admire you trying to talk up our play off chances last season, and injuries in a small squad did play a part, but I think our lop-sided fixture list gave us a false sense of hope for our top 6 chances. The run of wins in January and February were against bottom half teams. From March onwards we played 13 games, 11 of which were against teams in the top half and fell away, with only one win in the last 10.

After the upheaval in the summer this year was always going to be a struggle. Despite the core of a decent squad for this level, for me anything above lower mid-table was going to be a bonus. How many of the Cotterill players would get into the top teams in this league? Marosi and Dunkley possibly? What has done for Taylor is that we barely pose any attacking threat, and if we go behind the wheels seem to fall off defensively and didn't seem capable of changing it.

I think saying Hurst will play attacking football is a bit of a stretch. More attacking than Taylor, but that won't be hard. The first aim would be making us harder to beat, but I think it would be pragmatic rather than free flowing attacking football (if he were to come back). It also wouldn't be universally popular given the way he left. I just don't see it as the magic bullet to propel Shrewsbury to a play off push as some of the fan base seem to think it could be.

 

[Luke Imp]

The Shrewsbury issue kinda mirrors ours last season - a fairly comfortable league position being at odds with the underlying numbers. Whilst we persevered with Kennedy (which I'm not blaming our Board for, I still think they were correct in giving him the start of this season to change his ways back to what he apparently said in his interview), they've made the decision early.

In hindsight, we stuck with Kennedy for too long and it's taken a good three months for Skubala to start changing their mindset a bit.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

I admire you trying to talk up our play off chances last season, and injuries in a small squad did play a part, but I think our lop-sided fixture list gave us a false sense of hope for our top 6 chances. The run of wins in January and February were against bottom half teams. From March onwards we played 13 games, 11 of which were against teams in the top half and fell away, with only one win in the last 10.

After the upheaval in the summer this year was always going to be a struggle. Despite the core of a decent squad for this level, for me anything above lower mid-table was going to be a bonus. How many of the Cotterill players would get into the top teams in this league? Marosi and Dunkley possibly? What has done for Taylor is that we barely pose any attacking threat, and if we go behind the wheels seem to fall off defensively and didn't seem capable of changing it.

I think saying Hurst will play attacking football is a bit of a stretch. More attacking than Taylor, but that won't be hard. The first aim would be making us harder to beat, but I think it would be pragmatic rather than free flowing attacking football (if he were to come back). It also wouldn't be universally popular given the way he left. I just don't see it as the magic bullet to propel Shrewsbury to a play off push as some of the fan base seem to think it could be.

We only won one out the last ten because we had next to no players available and were playing multiple players out of position. Remember who was on our benches during those games? One game we named 5 subs, two were GK’s and the other three were kids who’ve never played. There was next to no chance we were getting any points towards the end because of injuries no matter who we played.

Marosi and Dunkley would get into top teams, agree. I’d also throw in Shipley (rejected Sheffield Wednesday to join us), Bayliss (when he can be bothered), Udoh (if he was in a Bolton team for example, he would easily score 20. We don’t provide enough for him). I’d also potentially throw in Winchester and maybe even Sraha who if not now, has potential to play higher up. You can’t deny that our team is underachieving.

The majority want Hurst. Look on the posts on Twitter after the defeat on Saturday and the club statement about Taylor. The fanbase wants him back. Majority on B&A want him back. It’s been five years since he walked out for Ipswich. Yes he didn’t do it the right way, but he deserves a second chance. The club needs a big lift and Hurst & Doig will provide that. I’m still Moore and Roland out but right now as a fanbase we need to concentrate on getting out of this dog fight that we shouldn’t be in.

 

[valefan16]

We only won one out the last ten because we had next to no players available and were playing multiple players out of position. Remember who was on our benches during those games? One game we named 5 subs, two were GK’s and the other three were kids who’ve never played. There was next to no chance we were getting any points towards the end because of injuries no matter who we played.

Marosi and Dunkley would get into top teams, agree. I’d also throw in Shipley (rejected Sheffield Wednesday to join us), Bayliss (when he can be bothered), Udoh (if he was in a Bolton team for example, he would easily score 20. We don’t provide enough for him). I’d also potentially throw in Winchester and maybe even Sraha who if not now, has potential to play higher up. You can’t deny that our team is underachieving.

The majority want Hurst. Look on the posts on Twitter after the defeat on Saturday and the club statement about Taylor. The fanbase wants him back. Majority on B&A want him back. It’s been five years since he walked out for Ipswich. Yes he didn’t do it the right way, but he deserves a second chance. The club needs a big lift and Hurst & Doig will provide that. I’m still Moore and Roland out but right now as a fanbase we need to concentrate on getting out of this dog fight that we shouldn’t be in.

I love your optimism for your team, its great and what keeps us all believing that our modest sized clubs can over achieve but injuries hit everyone, we beat Blackpool 3-0 the other week with two 16 year old youth players in full back positions due to injury, played last season with 3 centre halves fir for the last few months of the season and had 6 weeks with no fit strikers so injuries whilst an issue are the same for all, you'd argue then you lack the depth, as did we to sustain a challenge at the higher levels of league one last season. You were 18 points off with a -9 goal difference that is miles off. You only beat Bolton and Wycombe of the top 10 (2 wins in 20) last season but seemed fairly consistent against the bottom sides which probably places you about right.

Realistically even when all fit you were never going to challenge that top 6, even Derby with their budget and squad missed out which was miles ahead of yours and ours despite our decent first half of the season.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

I love your optimism for your team, its great and what keeps us all believing that our modest sized clubs can over achieve but injuries hit everyone, we beat Blackpool 3-0 the other week with two 16 year old youth players in full back positions due to injury, played last season with 3 centre halves fir for the last few months of the season and had 6 weeks with no fit strikers so injuries whilst an issue are the same for all, you'd argue then you lack the depth, as did we to sustain a challenge at the higher levels of league one last season. You were 18 points off with a -9 goal difference that is miles off. You only beat Bolton and Wycombe of the top 10 (2 wins in 20) last season but seemed fairly consistent against the bottom sides which probably places you about right.

Realistically even when all fit you were never going to challenge that top 6, even Derby with their budget and squad missed out which was miles ahead of yours and ours despite our decent first half of the season.

Trust me, I’m far from optimistic at the minute mate! See who the new manager is, might be another inexperienced head coach and if so that’ll send us down, that I’m certain.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

Pete O’Rourke has tweeted that Paul Hurst is set to be named as new Salop manager.

Brilliant news as far as I’m concerned. Especially as we also spoke to Gareth Ainsworth today, so glad we didn’t go with him. I don’t think the fanbase could stomach a 5th straight year of anti, negative football and time wasting.

The away end at Sixfields on Saturday should be rocking!

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Paul Hurst is so painfully washed up as a manager these days it's unreal. Says a lot that Grimsby fans think a damaged goods Dave Artell is a significant improvement on Hurst. Hurst wasn't exactly playing "attacking football" at Grimsby either as their fans would testify...

 

[saddler78]

Paul Hurst is so painfully washed up as a manager these days it's unreal. Says a lot that Grimsby fans think a damaged goods Dave Artell is a significant improvement on Hurst. Hurst wasn't exactly playing "attacking football" at Grimsby either as their fans would testify...

After being sacked from a League 2 club like the last manager they appointed it doesn't sound a good move.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

After being sacked from a League 2 club like the last manager they appointed it doesn't sound a good move.

Even more alarming that Hurst was sacked for similar reasons to Taylor too. Grimsby just weren't scoring enough goals...

 

[kieran_vale]

Seems the kind of appointment where if it happened at most other clubs in this league people would be at best underwhelmed. With that said sometimes managers just fit at certain clubs and will likely get a longer leash at Shrews given his prior success there.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

Ipswich and especially Scunthorpe were a bit of a mess when Hurst went in. With Grimsby he won them promotion back to the football league, beating moneybags Wrexham away from home along the way. Also took a League 2 teams to the quarter final of the FA Cup last season. He’s far, far, far better than Matt Taylor.

I always try and be a little confident but I’ve never felt so reassured that we won’t be going down this season now we have Hurst back at the helm. He’ll be bringing in Doig, Skitt is already here, he’ll certainly get us being the fittest team in the league which is where our success started from under him last time.

I’m just disappointed I’m working this weekend as I’d have loved to have been down at Sixfields to welcome him back.

 

[dannylad01]

Seems the kind of appointment where if it happened at most other clubs in this league people would be at best underwhelmed. With that said sometimes managers just fit at certain clubs and will likely get a longer leash at Shrews given his prior success there.

If you just posted Hurst's managerial record since leaving us and blanked out the name, I can't imagine there would be too many shouting from the rooftops about the appointment. Obviously given his past success at Shrewsbury he will be given more chance than others, and there is a buzz amongst certain elements of the fanbase, although othere still hold a grudge about the way he left in 2018. Can't blame him for wanting to better himself when his reputation was at its highest point.

As I've already said, I'm not convinced it'll be a great long term appointment, but I hope I'm wrong. Organisation at the back and an attacking plan should keep us out of trouble this year given the standard in the bottom half. Next season is the big test.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Yep and Grimsby gave Hurst a good budget by their standards for this season and he squandered it on mediocre signings bar that Conteh who was excellent. They just looked an awful side going forward in League Two so I can't see him doing well in League One either, especially with a goal-shy side like yourselves.

Feel like nostalgia has clouded rationality and the present day with this appointment. Hurst doesn't have 3 excellent loanees that are now PL regulars at his disposal like he did back then too. I think Shrewsbury survive comfortably whoever they appoint but thats more down to the fact the bottom of L1 is currently an utter shit show with so much dross down there. But I can't see Hurst repeating what he did a few years back. And he certainly won't get you playing attacking football either. Probably one of the more pragmatic managers I've seen down in League Two over the years.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Seems more of a PR stunt to appease a section of fans rather than an appointment made on results. They'll stay up though through a feelgood factor I would imagine. Next season is the test. As others have said, he doesn't have the excellent loanees this time and the squad he's inheriting looks poor. I'd only have Dunkley.

 

[kieran_vale]

If you just posted Hurst's managerial record since leaving us and blanked out the name, I can't imagine there would be too many shouting from the rooftops about the appointment. Obviously given his past success at Shrewsbury he will be given more chance than others, and there is a buzz amongst certain elements of the fanbase, although othere still hold a grudge about the way he left in 2018. Can't blame him for wanting to better himself when his reputation was at its highest point.

As I've already said, I'm not convinced it'll be a great long term appointment, but I hope I'm wrong. Organisation at the back and an attacking plan should keep us out of trouble this year given the standard in the bottom half. Next season is the big test.

Yeah truth be told I’ve never seen Shrews as particularly in any relegation danger and this doesn’t really move the needle either way for me. You’re in a group of clubs of which I think we will prove to be a member of too of mid-ranking teams that you can pretty much put in any order and would be justified in doing so.

 

[Dan Phillips]

Wow, this Shrewsbury fan is utterly deluded still, isn't he?

Danny seems my type of fan. Well reasoned posts and a realist.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

Wow, this Shrewsbury fan is utterly deluded still, isn't he?

Danny seems my type of fan. Well reasoned posts and a realist.

You still owe £20 from last season to charity mate.

Rather be deluded than not honour a bet, especially to charity.

 

[folletto]

And just like that Appleton is gone. Time for a third manager of the season, gonna be tough to turn it around but my god we need a new manager bounce

 

[kieran_vale]

Normally I hate the sack the manager culture but sometimes you just have to recognise when it was someone who was never a fit for that job in the first place and I think this is one such occasion. It's criminal to have Charlton where they are in the table with some of the talent there.

 

[Bobbin']

Normally I hate the sack the manager culture but sometimes you just have to recognise when it was someone who was never a fit for that job in the first place and I think this is one such occasion. It's criminal to have Charlton where they are in the table with some of the talent there.

Absolutely this.

Was never the right fit, and rightly or wrongly he didn’t have the fans from the beginning but ultimately results would have won them over, instead we’ve got worse, so much worse that relegation is a genuine possibility.

Nathan Jones an early contender according to TalkSport which probably means he’s not even been considered.

 

[folletto]

We just need a solid manager who we can give time too. It’s a bit of a poisoned chalice though because get it wrong and we are in league two.

With the odd exception We always tend to do better with managers who have a Charlton connection: Curbs, Powell, Bowyer.

Nathan Jones would be a coup and has a Charlton connection, don’t think he will drop that far. Not sure who’s realistic

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

Wow, this Shrewsbury fan is utterly deluded still, isn't he?

Danny seems my type of fan. Well reasoned posts and a realist.

We all live in hope even mighty PV

 

[Dan Phillips]

You still owe £20 from last season to charity mate.

Rather be deluded than not honour a bet, especially to charity.

Send us the details and I'll sort it at the weekend, fella.

 

[Luke Imp]

Can understand why Shrewsbury have gone back to Hurst because of his successful spell there but does he really offer anything too much different from Taylor? Hurst is hardly known for his attacking football, he's always been a handbrake on kinda guy (unless he wasn't at Shrewsbury but that's an anomaly rather than the norm for him).

As for Appleton, probably the end of him as a L1 manager now, I can't imagine anyone else will take a chance on him. Down to L2 or back to academy coaching (I still think he values player development over results tbh). In some respects, you've got to admire his willingness to head into shit show situations (Blackburn and Portsmouth), and also situations where he's up against is straight away (Lincoln after Cowley, Blackpool after Critchley). Add Charlton to the list and he's not exactly picked his jobs particularly well overall has he?

Unfortunately, the last three jobs he's had in quick succession have highlighted even more the exact same deficiencies and they stick out like a sore thumb - too lightweight in midfield, too tippy tappy, slow, sideways, predictable, can't defend crosses, can't defend set pieces and a soft underbelly.

 

[PaulHaddock]

Paul Hurst is so painfully washed up as a manager these days it's unreal. Says a lot that Grimsby fans think a damaged goods Dave Artell is a significant improvement on Hurst. Hurst wasn't exactly playing "attacking football" at Grimsby either as their fans would testify...

Eh? A promotion and FA Cup Quarter Final in the last two seasons is washed up now? And why are you so pressed about Hurst not sure about this ‘significant improvement’ either, damaged goods Artell has got us scoring more but we’re shipping goals like fuck.

Hurst got this season badly but you normally know what you’re expecting. Still has a good eye for a player and should tighten you up if you’re conceding (just not this season). It’s certainly a surprising appointment from Shrewsbury but I don’t think it’s the major error that some people are predicting.

 

[pontoonlew]

I think what I learnt from Hursts second spell here is that he’ll never ever change despite it being glaringly obvious what the issue is. He’ll probably have you solid but my god it was utterly painful to watch this season.

People point to his National League season with us as a success, which in the end it was. What they don’t see is the fact he was in part to blame for us going down in the first place. We started the National League season on fire, he then put the hand break on and we went on a 12 game run without a win. We made the playoffs by the skin of our teeth and then produced the greatest play-off campaign that there’s ever been.

Last season the incredible cup run masked some really poor runs, including another shit show at exactly the same point as the season before (October - December) where we picked up 1 win in 8 league games.

He then pissed away a large part of that cup money and the players that were any good were absolutely stifled by his tactics. He went on his 3rd miserable run in 3 years at exactly the same time yet again and didn’t survive this one. Artell has us playing infinitely better football but the defence Hurst signed has halted some of that progress for now.

He also massively misjudged players, he stuck with Ryan Taylor last season when Orsi couldn’t get a sniff. Orsi left in the summer and is now banging them in at Crawley, our goalkeeper situation is a farce because he told Max Crocombe he wasn’t guaranteed minutes. He left and is now having a great season for Burton whilst we struggle to unpick yet another shit show he created.

Enough of our fans like him to suggest it might work out, but I personally got bored of watching us ages ago. Artell has proven in 10 games that football is supposed to be a sport you enjoy watching, Hurst gave me that feeling once in a blue moon (but it was absolutely ace when he did).

 

[Floreat Salopia]

There’s been a wave of optimism and excited on our forum and social media in the last couple of hours. We’ve bloody needed something like this as it’s been stale for too long, hopefully it lasts!

 

[Son of Cod]

Paul Hurst is so painfully washed up as a manager these days it's unreal. Says a lot that Grimsby fans think a damaged goods Dave Artell is a significant improvement on Hurst. Hurst wasn't exactly playing "attacking football" at Grimsby either as their fans would testify...

Painfully washed up is a terrible take. Especially coming from someone whose club got absolutely mullered last time out at this level trying to play a polar opposite style of football. There's definitely room for Hurst's style in L1 and there are few better fits in the EFL for it than Shrewsbury. I don't think you'll find that many Town fans (that didn't have an anti-Hurst agenda in the first place) that see Artell as a significant improvement. The positivity at Artell coming in has all been about change in style, not necessarily a vast step up in stewardship.

Even more alarming that Hurst was sacked for similar reasons to Taylor too. Grimsby just weren't scoring enough goals...

Again, not really true, we were leaking too many. Something that's continued under Artell. Think we had 5 players all over 5 goals when Hurst left so there were goals in the team. The problem is, if a Hurst team is conceding then they're definitely not winning often enough. Couple that with such a pragmatic ethos on the pitch and you're not gonna be granted the luxury of credit in the bank when you stopping picking up points.

I think what I learnt from Hursts second spell here is that he’ll never ever change despite it being glaringly obvious what the issue is. He’ll probably have you solid but my god it was utterly painful to watch this season.

People point to his National League season with us as a success, which in the end it was. What they don’t see is the fact he was in part to blame for us going down in the first place. We started the National League season on fire, he then put the hand break on and we went on a 12 game run without a win. We made the playoffs by the skin of our teeth and then produced the greatest play-off campaign that there’s ever been.

Last season the incredible cup run masked some really poor runs, including another shit show at exactly the same point as the season before (October - December) where we picked up 1 win in 8 league games.

He then pissed away a large part of that cup money and the players that were any good were absolutely stifled by his tactics. He went on his 3rd miserable run in 3 years at exactly the same time yet again and didn’t survive this one. Artell has us playing infinitely better football but the defence Hurst signed has halted some of that progress for now.

He also massively misjudged players, he stuck with Ryan Taylor last season when Orsi couldn’t get a sniff. Orsi left in the summer and is now banging them in at Crawley, our goalkeeper situation is a farce because he told Max Crocombe he wasn’t guaranteed minutes. He left and is now having a great season for Burton whilst we struggle to unpick yet another shit show he created.

Enough of our fans like him to suggest it might work out, but I personally got bored of watching us ages ago. Artell has proven in 10 games that football is supposed to be a sport you enjoy watching, Hurst gave me that feeling once in a blue moon (but it was absolutely ace when he did).

Agree with much of what you're saying, particularly the Hurst not changing stuff. The subs thing...rigidly stuck to his guns on this even as he was being sacked, like the captain of the Titanic knowing he was gonna be walking out the Keepmoat sacked but still he doesn't bring anyone on. He also still lacks the guts to use his attacking players to their full potential for me, seeing the way Eisa and Vernam were used against Notts the other week was not something we'd have seen under Hurst.

However, and I realise I'm getting into this for the second time in two days, I'm surprised you attribute our relegation even partly to Hurst. The side he inherited was so ghastly that we were never ever staying up. It was worse than Woods' side that went down. Look at Holloway's recruitment and then look at Hurst's and still tell me Hurst was to blame.

I don't think he put the handbrake on our season in 21/22 either, we just lost McAtee and didn't have anyone anywhere nearly as good as him to step up. What he did instill though, was the togetherness that got us through that and out the other side and the only time a Hurst side at Town hasn't come through adversity as a stronger unit has been this season when he wasn't given the chance to. That's something he'll bring to Shrewsbury too.

Very much agree with some of his misjudgement of players that you mention. The Crocombe and Orsi examples definitely contributed to sealing his fate and Taylor definitely played way too much last season. I'd add trying to convert Alex Hunt into a holding midfielder when he's clearly not too.

 

[GTFCfish]

Good luck with Hurst I love the guy and I hope he does great there, given me (and my lad) some of the best memories ever supporting GTFC these last couple of years and even though it was the right time for him to go (IMO) I was still gutted about it.