The Carlisle United f**ked it up Official Promotion Thread

[hellogregory]

A wise man once said that war was coming to these forums.

I think it just got here.

What's the plan then John?

 

[Carver]

What's the plan then John?

It would be typical of me to go out all guns blazing on him and turn the thread into a profanity filled mess as that would be giving him what he wants. So I won't go down that route, but instead what I'll do is take my time and then when he least expects it BANG!

 

[hellogregory]

It would be typical of me to go out all guns blazing on him and turn the thread into a profanity filled mess as that would be giving him what he wants. So I won't go down that route, but instead what I'll do is take my time and then when he leasts expects it BANG!

You're going to wait thousands of years for your loophole?

 

[Boletus Edulis]

A wise man once said that war was coming to these forums.

I think it just got here.

Sun Tze, Machiavelli or Von Clausewitz?

 

[rudebwoyben]

Just as well social media and internet fora weren't around when these august gentlemen were practising their trade...

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Just as well social media and internet fora weren't around when these august gentlemen were practising their trade...

Oh, I don't know, the first would probably use it to make the enemy think he was somewhere else, the second would encourage the Prince to use it to manipulate the masses and the last would use it to help create the fog of war to make it more difficult for his opponent to make a decision.

 

[ProfessorGreen]

A wise man once said that war was coming to these forums.

I think it just got here.

 

[Carver]

You're going to wait thousands of years for your loophole?

Mowgli and his sad little gang of Vanni, oakroader and GTFCfish are a bunch of clever knobs who I can handle when they're alone but when they're together and doing my head in all at once they can be difficult. The thing is I don't have enough people here who will back me up and help me get the respect I deserve on this forum. It seems I'm the only one who has the bollocks to take the piss out of them when necessary.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Mowgli and his sad little gang of Vanni, Oakroader and GTFCFish are a smart bunch of knobs who I can handle when they're alone but when they're together and doing my head in all at once they can be difficult. The thing is I don't have enough people here who will back me up and help me get the respect I deserve on this forum. It seems I'm the only one who has the bollocks to take the piss out of them when necessary.

Just picture yourself as the Chuck Norris of the 1FF League 2 forum and all will be well.

 

[Habbinalan]

Just picture yourself as the Chuck Norris of the 1FF League 2 forum and all will be well.

Who will it be who finally kills Carver? I don't see Mowgli as "Kenny" - Shoddy might make a good "Rick" but Oakroader has too much wisdom to be "Dale" and I don't really see Vanni as "Daryl"

or will......

 

[hellogregory]

Keep in mind that you're out on licence, Carver.

 

[Alan Partridge]

Mowgli and his sad little gang of Vanni, oakroader and GTFCfish are a bunch of clever knobs who I can handle when they're alone but when they're together and doing my head in all at once they can be difficult. The thing is I don't have enough people here who will back me up and help me get the respect I deserve on this forum. It seems I'm the only one who has the bollocks to take the piss out of them when necessary.

I'm with you, brother!

 

[Carver]

You see Mowgli you see. We Carlisle fans are all one and we won't take crap from anyone.

So take a fucking step back.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

You see Mowgli you see. We Carlisle fans are all one and we won't take crap from anyone.

So take a fucking step back.

Is that because you are all related?

 

[hellogregory]

Is that because you are all related?

I can confirm that I am not related to anyone on this forum.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

I can confirm that I am not related to anyone on this forum.

Does that mean your all part of the Borg then

 

[hellogregory]

Does that mean your all part of the Borg then

No, but that's probably because I've been dead for 12 years.

 

[Vanni]

''Mowgli and his sad little gang''. Now there's a great name for a band I reckon.

Btw, I'm with you too Carver buddy boy. Let's stand up for our rights eh?


edit - was just thinking about tonight's match. Who will you be siding with Carlisle fans? It's a bit tricky as a Pompey win will see them just one point behind you lot. We're also interested in tonights result, together with Luton and Wycombe, but obviously not as much as Carlisle and Plymouth.

 

[cufc17]

I'd probably prefer a draw, worst case being a Pompey win. I just want to maintain and hopefully extend the gap to Pompey and co.
Should be a good game either way.

 

[shoddycollins]

I agree with CUFC17... Draw, then Doncaster win then worst of all Pompey win... and I wouldn't even mind a Doncaster win that much as defeat at the weekend has given a bit more perspective over the importance of not fucking up a chance to get out of this division, even if not as champions.

I haven't looked at PASOTI recently, because I decided after Monday that football can just fuck off... but without looking at it now I would predict that most Plymouth fans will feel the same, experiences of previous years mean they seem to just want to get the fuck promoted.

 

[ProfessorGreen]

I agree with CUFC17... Draw, then Doncaster win then worst of all Pompey win... and I wouldn't even mind a Doncaster win that much as defeat at the weekend has given a bit more perspective over the importance of not fucking up a chance to get out of this division, even if not as champions.

I haven't looked at PASOTI recently, because I decided after Monday that football can just fuck off... but without looking at it now I would predict that most Plymouth fans will feel the same, experiences of previous years mean they seem to just want to get the fuck promoted.

This^

See Oxford, Wimbledon, Northampton and Bristol Rovers positions in League 1 now. As soon as the new season starts in the higher division, Champions means feck all.

 

[Vanni]

Good points, but I'm always more interested in seeing how the promoted sides fare and whether any of the four sides find themselves drawn in a relegation battle or not, and so far it looks like they won't be. I've always believed that while there isn't much of a difference quality-wise between the top Conference sides and the average mid-table or lower L2 sides, the same can't be said for the standard between L1 and L2. But it could be that things have changed, as my club hasn't played L1 footy for a good 14 years or so, but back then, the promoted L2 sides would mostly struggle in their first season at the third tier.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

There are some very poor teams in L1 at present

 

[ProfessorGreen]

Good points, but I'm always more interested in seeing how the promoted sides fare and whether any of the four sides find themselves drawn in a relegation battle or not, and so far it looks like they won't be. I've always believed that while there isn't much of a difference quality-wise between the top Conference sides and the average mid-table or lower L2 sides, the same can't be said for the standard between L1 and L2. But it could be that things have changed, as my club hasn't played L1 footy for a good 14 years or so, but back then, the promoted L2 sides would mostly struggle in their first season at the third tier.

Just having a quick browse and of the 16 teams promoted from league 2 since and including the 2012-2013 season, none of them have been relegated the following season. In fact none of them have been relegated at all back down to League 2. A couple have gone on to the Championship. This suggests that the standard between the leagues has somewhat narrowed. Either that or all 16 teams strengthened adequately over the summer transfer windows.

Of the promoted teams the closest to relegation are Shrewsbury, Chesterfield and Bury who are all flirting dangerously this season. So perhaps it's now more how to maintain the League 1 standard during consolidation seasons, rather than achieving the standard in the first place.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I agree with CUFC17... Draw, then Doncaster win then worst of all Pompey win... and I wouldn't even mind a Doncaster win that much as defeat at the weekend has given a bit more perspective over the importance of not fucking up a chance to get out of this division, even if not as champions.

I haven't looked at PASOTI recently, because I decided after Monday that football can just fuck off... but without looking at it now I would predict that most Plymouth fans will feel the same, experiences of previous years mean they seem to just want to get the fuck promoted.

Agreed, basic view is we want to get out of here, and keeping clear green water between us and fourth is what matters at the moment. Though I have two other scenarios that I rather like 1) mass brawl so loads get sent off, match abandoned or 2) fog descends, match abandoned.

 

[cufc17]

I don't think there's a great gap between League One and Two, particularly the clubs towards the bottom of L1. Of course there's some good teams towards the top end and there's a clear gap in quality, but I'd say some teams in this division wouldn't look out of place in League One. Momentum is also a big bonus, especially if you keep key players and/or staff together.

 

[thewwfc]

we came straight back down both times we got promoted to L1 recently.

That said we totally failed to strengthen both times, the first time the then owner refused to confirm our budget until several weeks after everyone else had started signing players, so we were left with dross.

The second time we were left at the mercy of Gary Waddock's bizarre "quantity not quality" signing policy, recruiting a whole bunch of relentlessly mediocre squad players who were not up to the standards of the division.

I do think if we'd won the playoff final a couple of seasons back we wouldn't have had the money to strengthen, and so would have yo-yoed straight back down for the third time running.

I haven't watched any L1 football since we were last in it to be fair, but from what I recall there definitely is a clear improvement in the quality, especially given that you get some mon£ybag$ teams at that level. The strikers are that notch sharper and are more than capable of punishing the horrendous defensive gaffes that so many teams make at this level, whereas with many L2 strikers there's a fair shot that they're not good enough to capitalise upon defensive howlers.

 

[Kenneth E End]

I don't think there's a great gap between League One and Two, particularly the clubs towards the bottom of L1. Of course there's some good teams towards the top end and there's a clear gap in quality, but I'd say some teams in this division wouldn't look out of place in League One. Momentum is also a big bonus, especially if you keep key players and/or staff together.

Its certainly a bigger gap than between the Conference and L2.
Some teams won't be able to get away with pure physicality, which you can get away with (to an extent) in L2.

 

[Carver]

There are some very poor teams in L1 at present

When we were last in L1 it was so bad I'd say the teams in the whole bottom half of the table were inferior to the top 7 of L2. As long as a team going up into L1 can keep hold of their key players then they should be able to finish in the top half.

 

[shoddycollins]

When we were last in L1 it was so bad I'd say the teams in the whole bottom half of the table were inferior to the top 7 of L2. As long as a team going up into L1 can keep hold of their key players then they should be able to finish in the top half.

I think the big jump in class happens about two thirds of the way up L1 rather than between L1 & L2... similarly the next big jump down is a few places off the top of the conference.

As I see it, in terms of class, you can divide the top seven divisions into the following groups.

1) The current top six premiership teams.
2) From seventh in the premiership all the way down to the League One playoffs.
3) From mid-table in League One down to the top three or four in the Conference.
4) Everyone else in the Conference and Conferences North and South, apart from a few maybe at the bottom of those divisions, but my knowledge of who plays there and what they're like isn't too great. I remember when we were down there, you had Leigh RMI in the Conference who were clearly not in the same class as the rest of the division.

Generally speaking, there will be a gradual reduction in quality from the top to bottom of each of these groups, but a more sudden reduction when dropping to the group below, though the boundaries are fuzzy and there are some teams that would be harder to place, and some teams performing better or worse than the group you'd have expected to find them in.

Most teams can harbour realistic ambitions to get to the top of their group simply through good management and financial nous. With a bit of luck they may finish higher than the traditional upper limit of their group, and where this results in promotion, they may end up in a division that is above their group, for example a group 3 team getting promoted into the Championship.

To actually become a member of a higher group though is usually where something has to change... i.e. investment, but possibly also a shiny new stadium unlocking untapped potential.

Rotherham are an example of a team who ended up getting promoted into a division outside of their group, they did well to get there but they just can't hold their own once there. Now they're in the Championship they can't fall to their natural level without being relegated first, so they're locked in a constant struggle to avoid relegation, not inevitable, just highly probable... and well, looks like this season their luck ran out.

You used to get the opposite of this in the Conference with teams falling through the trapdoor and then if they could remain solvent, being in a constant promotion race, however recently there have been a few teams who have come up from group 4 to join group 3, such as Eastleigh and Forest Green and that has changed things a little.