The Cricket Thread

[hodge]

Being honest I'd like to see Taylor come in for Billings, may be harsh but I feel Taylor is a talent we need to utilise in this team, I'd put Taylor in at 5 and move Stokes/Buttler down 1 each. If we have a great start and a situation calls for Stokes and/or Buttler to be above Taylor then fine, but we aren't always going to get that 3rd wicket partnership we had today, when Stokes and Billings went I thought we were about to crumble, Stokes, Buttler and Billings next to each other in the order is very aggresive, maybe even Taylor at 6 after Stokes at 5 just to mix it up.

 

[Skinner]

I wouldn't be against putting Taylor at 3 and moving Morgan down to 5

 

[George Reilly's Hairpiece]

Buttler needs to stay where he is. He's one of the most intelligent cricketers that we've produced in a long time, and one of the most rounded as well. It's natural that he'll be known for the explosive side of his game, but he is more than capable of building an innings when he is given the time to do it.

 

[Bobbin']

Happy for Billings to be dropped, he can play for Kent that way.

Although I will be disappointed if he doesn't get at least one more game, he deserves at least another crack.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Why does everyone seem to love James Taylor so much? I get that he's a decent enough batsman and that 98 against Australia in the World Cup is one of our best knocks of the tour (not much competition there), but his scores after that innings were pretty poor and he hasn't really stepped up given his opportunities. It was even mentioned that he should replace Morgan in the batting line up? Really? Replace our most dynamic ODI batsman of the past 5 years?

I'd say give this batting line up the whole NZ series now, they've earnt it.

 

[Skinner]

Probably because prior to yesterday Morgan has been really shit

 

[Saddlerrad]

I'd keep the batting line up the same for the next couple of games - unless they are alarming defeats. Other than his catching, I've never been impressed with Chris Jordan and he was very lucky to have been given such a run in the test side. I'd keep my eye on him and then look towards getting Taylor in at some point - but not desperately.

Not exactly sure whether we will get a full game on Friday, weather looks warm but iffy in London.

 

[Bobbin']

Thunder and lightning by all accounts, was thinking of going but not worth taking the day off work and spending 60 notes to sit in the rain.

 

[Skinner]

 

[hodge]

Why does everyone seem to love James Taylor so much? I get that he's a decent enough batsman and that 98 against Australia in the World Cup is one of our best knocks of the tour (not much competition there), but his scores after that innings were pretty poor and he hasn't really stepped up given his opportunities. It was even mentioned that he should replace Morgan in the batting line up? Really? Replace our most dynamic ODI batsman of the past 5 years?

I'd say give this batting line up the whole NZ series now, they've earnt it.

Roy and Billings? Never suggested Taylor should have replaced Morgan but he should have been ahead of Billings imo. Taylor is a real talent, but I fear he is going to get the Rashid treatment of being looked over.

I'd keep the batting line up the same for the next couple of games - unless they are alarming defeats. Other than his catching, I've never been impressed with Chris Jordan and he was very lucky to have been given such a run in the test side. I'd keep my eye on him and then look towards getting Taylor in at some point - but not desperately.

Not exactly sure whether we will get a full game on Friday, weather looks warm but iffy in London.

I'd agree tbh, as a bowler he's never really made me think he's either a) an out and out wicket taker or b) someone who can tie down an end. However it just seems to be a lack of options around.

 

[hodge]

Buttler needs to stay where he is. He's one of the most intelligent cricketers that we've produced in a long time, and one of the most rounded as well. It's natural that he'll be known for the explosive side of his game, but he is more than capable of building an innings when he is given the time to do it.

Imo Buttler shouldn't have a set number, let him float and send him in at what is deemed the best point. I agree he's both capable of building and innings and being explosive, but you want him around for the last 15 so I'd warn against him being too high. I don't think you want him coming in after 20 overs too often.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Roy and Billings? Never suggested Taylor should have replaced Morgan but he should have been ahead of Billings imo. Taylor is a real talent, but I fear he is going to get the Rashid treatment of being looked over.



I'd agree tbh, as a bowler he's never really made me think he's either a) an out and out wicket taker or b) someone who can tie down an end. However it just seems to be a lack of options around.

i think it'd be pretty harsh for Roy and Billings to be dropped on the back of 1 low score. the whole idea of England being a free scoring attacking team relies on the batsman playing without fear knowing that a low score made trying to push the run rate won't result in them getting the chop. Give them a few chances. i agree there's a talent there in James Taylor but I would much rather see him in the Test team as a No5 or No6 (probably to replace Bell) rather than up the order in ODI's.

I think it's criminal that Flower hasn't used Hales more in ODI cricket. Absolutely criminal. The guy has been England's best T20 batsman for a few years now but he couldn't get in the ODI team. Looking back over Flower's regime, things like this I actually still can't believe he got away with. Cook as our ODI opening batsman

 

[hodge]

I felt it was harsh on Taylor being dropped from the odi team in the first place, arguably the best domestic one day batsmen last season, Lyth was kept around the test team under similar circumstances. I just feel Stokes, Buttler and Billings in the same time could be dangerous. Taylor is perfectly capable of attacking.

 

[RavenBish]

Taylor's not that big hitter in the middle order (although he can hit boundaries, the rumour that certain big wigs in charge kept him out because he couldn't hit 4s and 6s is laughable) however he's a batsman that always bats at a high strike-rate, he's busy, quick between the wickets, a good fielder and he's one of the best batsmen in the country when it comes to situational batting. If you've got Hales windmilling sixes you can bring him in and he'll get a single off every ball to get him on strike, or he can play lower down the order and protect a tail-ender and hog the strike and be more expansive.

Somewhat unimportant in the grand scheme but also worth mentioning he's potential captain material. A few snafus at Notts granted but generally he's very good and very intelligent too. He's been the captain of choice for the Lions side for a couple of years now.

It'd be harsh to drop Billings out this early obviously but you wonder what Taylor's ever done wrong enough in an England shirt to begin with to warrant losing his place to him. He was one of the (very) few who returned from the World Cup with any credit and at 25 he fits in with the younger team vibe too.

Buttler's being called the next greatest thing ever but I mean, let's compare records.
Buttler 24
FC - 66 matches, 3138 runs, 34.86 ave, 4 100s, 19 50s
ODI - 56 matches, 1409 runs, 34.36 ave, 2 100s, 7 50s

Taylor 25
FC - 123 matches, 8280 runs, 47.04 ave, 18 100s, 43 50s
ODI - 17 matches, 492 runs, 35.14 ave, 0 100s (98*), 5 50s
T20 - 84 matches, 1764 runs, 33.92 ave, 0 100s, 8 50s

Billings 24 (turns 24 on Monday)
FC - 32 matches, 1370 runs, 29.78 ave, 1 100, 8 50s
T20 - 44 matches, 754 runs, 19.33 ave, 0 100, 1 50

Now you tell me what's happened there and why a 25 year old with that record who has performed well whenever given a chance with England too, isn't one of the first name on the teamsheet for this so called 'New Era'?

 

[Baz]

Still lots of politics in the selectors panel to be honest. Billings is there as the back up wicket keeper pure and simple. Buttler for me is still inconsistent with the bat, we'll probably see him fail with the bat next match, it's just something he does, and of course there's still question marks around his keeping too.

Taylor is in danger of being a lost player for England. He is excellent but just hasn't been given the chance in either form of the game. I'd get Taylor in the Test side ahead of Ballance too but that's just me of course.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

you have to bear in mind with Buttler as well that he's coming in usually around 6 or 7 and so the situation usually means that he has to hit out for the team's sake and obviously means theres more risk of an early dismissal. I understand what you say about Taylor though, I would say if you were to fit him into this ODI team then you'd be doing it in place of Billings rather than a Morgan or a Buttler.

I'd also include Moeen Ali into this conversation however, because he didn't have a bad World Cup and he offers batting and bowling alternatives. His place in the Test team is really confusing right now. He's not a Test No8, he's probably a No6, and he's not a first choice spinner, he's probably a back up. But they have him batting at No8 as the first choice spinner? Doesn't work for me. I'd much rather see Rashid in the test team & probably only have Ali in when the pitch requires 2 spinners. However in the ODI team he's a much better fit.

 

[George Reilly's Hairpiece]

you have to bear in mind with Buttler as well that he's coming in usually around 6 or 7 and so the situation usually means that he has to hit out for the team's sake and obviously means theres more risk of an early dismissal.

Absolutely right. You can't expect someone that has been ustilised a lot as a late innings hitter to have a good average. To average 35 in those circumstances is pretty impressive as it is.

 

[Baz]

you have to bear in mind with Buttler as well that he's coming in usually around 6 or 7 and so the situation usually means that he has to hit out for the team's sake and obviously means theres more risk of an early dismissal. I understand what you say about Taylor though, I would say if you were to fit him into this ODI team then you'd be doing it in place of Billings rather than a Morgan or a Buttler.

I'd also include Moeen Ali into this conversation however, because he didn't have a bad World Cup and he offers batting and bowling alternatives. His place in the Test team is really confusing right now. He's not a Test No8, he's probably a No6, and he's not a first choice spinner, he's probably a back up. But they have him batting at No8 as the first choice spinner? Doesn't work for me. I'd much rather see Rashid in the test team & probably only have Ali in when the pitch requires 2 spinners. However in the ODI team he's a much better fit.

There is that with Buttler yes, however the majority of the time he comes in when England still have 20 overs to bat Until the last match at least haha.

Ali is a strange one indeed. He opens or bats at 3 in the county game yet hasn't been given a fair crack at that position Internationally. Test wise they don't need to play him. If they feel they need an extra batsman batting at 8 then that proves there is little confidence in 1-7 to score big runs. His spin bowling is average at best. We need to be playing a proper spinner in the test matches. Rashid is the obvious choice there as we know he can hold a bat too, but what about Kerrigan, Briggs etc? You know those spin bowlers who actually take wickets. Sure they aren't good with the bat, but wickets win matches afterall.

I'd agree with keeping Ali in the ODI team though, as he can be unorthodox with the bat and can do ok with his spin in the ODI setting.

 

[RavenBish]

Taylor routinely bats at 5 & 6 for Notts as well by the way.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Taylor would be in my test side with Ballance out and Bell or Root batting at 3. Preferably Bell as he's older and likely to be more expendable over the next 2-3 years and Root's current form is just about the best of any batsmen on the planet.

Ali is a tough one. Last summer showed that he can do it. But he just looks lost at the minute and look what happened to Stokes when they gave him a place at 5 when we played at lords. Tough one.

Matt Prior has retired from all cricket on medical grounds. Great keeper for England. Had a period of being the best wicket keeper batsmen in the world too.

 

[Baz]

Another problem we're going to have is when Anderson & Broad go off the boil within the next 12-18 months, who's really coming into the fold to replace them? Finn has been given chance after chance, Plunkett is also getting too old in all honesty, Wood has been given his chance so that's a start but who's next?

 

[Saddlerrad]

Another problem we're going to have is when Anderson & Broad go off the boil within the next 12-18 months, who's really coming into the fold to replace them? Finn has been given chance after chance, Plunkett is also getting too old in all honesty, Wood has been given his chance so that's a start but who's next?

Off the boil in what sense? Broad still has 4 or 5 years in him. Anderson with his fitness still has enough to carry him through the next Ashes series in Australia at least. Fast bowlers will start going on to 36-38 quite regularly IMO. I wouldn't worry about losing them or Anderson yet. I'm really not that bothered about Broad leaving, he's so streaky that you don't notice he's playing in about 60% of the bowling innings. I'm hoping that Finn will eventually mature into the bowler that we all thought he could be. I like Mark Wood too.

Producing bowlers is going to be our next big task. We have the next generation of batsmen IMO. Can we add the bowlers?

Roy, Root, Hales, Morgan, Taylor, Ballance, Stokes, Buttler, Rashid, Wood, Billings, Ali.

A good core there that could all theoretically play for at least another 8-12 years for the most. If Root doesn't go on to become England top all time run scorer and one of our most successful captains ever, I'll be amazed. There, I've said it.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

I'd say Anderson is the more concerning out of the two. I agree about Broad, too often he's hit and miss. Reminds me a lot of Andy Caddick in that you know that if he pitches the ball up with the new ball, he will get wickets. But he seems more concerned with pitching short which negates the impact the new ball can have.

With improvement and confidence I do see a good future in Jordan and Stokes. Same with Wood. I hope they don't mess about with the technical side of his game and just instead let him bowl fast. 3 over bursts. If he's expensive, so what, just bowl at 90mph plus and give us something different. We also need a left arm quickie for variation in the team IMO.

 

[Baz]

Broad has been too inconsistent for too long now, but then he's safe in his position as nobody is really getting close to breaking into the team. Jordan was given a shot but didn't really impress with the ball. Brooks is probably getting close, so is Harris, but will they get enough game time to develop going forward?

I know Dunn at Surrey is highly rated but again is very raw, so would need game time, and I don't think we'd see David Willey get a chance at Test Level, even if he offers that left arm variation.

 

[DarkSithLord]

Matt Prior has announced his retirement from Cricket on Medical advice.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

reading the Kevin Pietersen book soured my opinion on Matt Prior slightly, but fantastic wicket keeper and No 7 batsman for England.

 

[Matt_]

Taylor would be in my test side with Ballance out

On what basis?

Three tests ago Ballance was averaging 65 and had broken or equaled all sorts of records.

A few poor scores, his first poor run since being in the side, is no reason to drop him. That would mark a return to the dark days of England selection policy which hopefully are long gone.

Additionally, Taylor's County record doesn't exactly mark him as one who is breaking the door down in terms of test selection. Taylor should be in and around the ODI side, which he is, but he has to do more to press for a test match spot in terms of his County Championship performances.

 

[Saddlerrad]

On what basis?

Three tests ago Ballance was averaging 65 and had broken or equaled all sorts of records.

A few poor scores, his first poor run since being in the side, is no reason to drop him. That would mark a return to the dark days of England selection policy which hopefully are long gone.

Additionally, Taylor's County record doesn't exactly mark him as one who is breaking the door down in terms of test selection. Taylor should be in and around the ODI side, which he is, but he has to do more to press for a test match spot in terms of his County Championship performances.

On the basis that I don't think Ballance is a great number 3 currently and I think Bell would potentially be better there. Given Cook's stubborn nature, Lyth making his way in the game I think we could do with something a little bit fresher at number 3 than what Ballance currently can offer. That's not to say he's a bad player or he needs dropping, but with the way the game is going I'd suggest he may be better down the order when the ball is 60 overs old and he can come in with us 250-4 and needing to push the innings on, not dig a trench for himself deep in his crease and eventually get out with 20 from 70 balls. The innings currently just stagnates around him.

It's Taylor's style of play. As RB says, he strikes me as someone that can judge a match situation. If we are 30-4 then you could imagine him following Root and being busy at the crease to counter attack without being overally attacking and potentially giving his wicket away, like Stokes does at times.

Test teams are moving increasingly away from traditional test players. You don't really need more than 1 or 2 in there these days. Cook can do that job well.

 

[RavenBish]

Broad has been too inconsistent for too long now, but then he's safe in his position as nobody is really getting close to breaking into the team. Jordan was given a shot but didn't really impress with the ball. Brooks is probably getting close, so is Harris, but will they get enough game time to develop going forward?

Brooks is 31, how much is he going to develop? There's loads of young bowlers in England getting wickets it's just the same as it's been for quite some years where none of them quite develop enough, even going back to Plunkett early in his career with Mahmood. Anderson's been the one constant and Broad's been the only one to step up.

Mills and Craig Overton (possibly both of the twins) are two young uns with raw pace - Dunn, Wood, Jordan, Finn, Woakes are all young enough too, Notts have a couple of potentially really good fast bowlers in Ball and Wood. The talent is there domestically for England to be really good in all forms (except the lack of spinners obviously), they just need to fix the progression - it's a bit of a running joke but putting players on the EPP and shipping them to Loughborough to 'improve their action and technique' or whatever, really does seem to have the opposite effect. I remember seeing the likes of Bairstow, Taylor, Chambers, Plunkett and Dernbach every couple of weeks during my time at Uni...not sure it helped any of them in any way but they seem happy to stick with it.

 

[RavenBish]

On the basis that I don't think Ballance is a great number 3 currently and I think Bell would potentially be better there. Given Cook's stubborn nature, Lyth making his way in the game I think we could do with something a little bit fresher at number 3 than what Ballance currently can offer. That's not to say he's a bad player or he needs dropping, but with the way the game is going I'd suggest he may be better down the order when the ball is 60 overs old and he can come in with us 250-4 and needing to push the innings on, not dig a trench for himself deep in his crease and eventually get out with 20 from 70 balls. The innings currently just stagnates around him.

It's Taylor's style of play. As RB says, he strikes me as someone that can judge a match situation. If we are 30-4 then you could imagine him following Root and being busy at the crease to counter attack without being overally attacking and potentially giving his wicket away, like Stokes does at times.

Test teams are moving increasingly away from traditional test players. You don't really need more than 1 or 2 in there these days. Cook can do that job well.

I think Ballance is alright and you can't drop a player with a Test average like that. He clearly has some issues playing the swinging ball though which isn't ideal batting at 3 behind England's openers. I think England need Bell and Root at 3 & 4 with their counter-attacking style and Ballance drops down to 5 where he can get bat on ball a bit more. I do fear Ballance is the next one to need his head getting right and eventually disappearing back to Yorkshire for 6 months. He's a decent limited overs player as he proved batting down the order at Yorkshire and hitting boundaries but he looked mentally fragile out at the World Cup - whether that was just the mentality of the entire team rubbing off or not it's never nice to see a player batting so deep in his crease against moderate pace and wafting reluctantly at anything outside off with that lack of confidence.