WWE Raw Discussion Thread

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Sorry mate, don't share your optimism. Probably the worst Mania build up that I've ever witnessed.

Hopefully the actual card itself will deliver big time as far as match quality goes, as that was a reoccurring theme in 2014 in the WWE

 

[Saddlerrad]

I don't think it's been a very good build up, but neither was last year. The only thing with momentum that made last years WM was the Bryan vs Triple H storyline. Ironically, the only thing worth listening too last night was HHH on the mic again. Mania build up means nothing if the show turns out very good, like last year. Wrestling just isn't very good these days - anywhere really.

 

[Eamonn]

I think its been a nice slow build up which is now warming up very nicely indeed. I really enjoyed the Sting promo, Undertaker/Wyatt stuff, an aggressive Cena forcing Rusev into a match, Heymans awesome promo though disappointed these Lesnar appearances are being wasted, think thats him until the go home show. I loved the little 3 straight matches segment of Kidd/Cesaro, Natalya/Naomi and Usos/Matadores, quick paced entertaining matches and shock results, opening up the title picture. IC title got good time as well on the show, the ladder match is going to be incredible, I mean Bryan, Ziggler, Ambrose in the same match, fuck yes!! More Miz/Mizdow descension as well, I actually think Mizdow might win that battle royal, if not a returning Sheamus who will then turn heel on Bryan on Raw after Mania setting up that feud.

And of course the Orton stuff was fantastic, pretty much as I called it, great little storyline Orton weasels his way back in and contrives to have Rollins left with no backup before he makes his move for revenge, much better option than Orton getting beat down every week by The Authority, good call that from WWE. Now there are 2 more weeks to ramp up the energy but every single feud has got good time and a good build up, I cant really ask for much more, each match makes sense and has been booked quite well, as I say would have just liked more Lesnar/Reigns interaction and a Taker appearance and Sting/HHH brawl, Lesnar/Reigns brawl before Mania would go down a treat. Pretty excited for the Mania card, has huge potential.

 

[Saddlerrad]

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1612146-most-awful-rtwm-ever.html

 

[Luke]

I can't cope with over 3 hours of this anymore, it's really dragging and I am losing interest sadly. Keep hoping it will pick up but not sure it is doing. Did enjoy the Orton story I suppose but would have preferred him to flip straight after fast lane but that was built up well in fairness.

Anyway, rant time...

Why have Lesnar on the show? What a waste of an appearance to stand in the ring and do fuck all. Yes Heymans speaking was brilliant as per but what was the need for Brock?!

Give divas a chance hashtag and all that, two matches that didn't even last five minutes between them! Nice one.

This nicking the ic title, boring. The ladder match has potential, apart from R truth, canny fathom that one.

Kane and Big show, don't just leave the arena for raw leave the arena for good please.

Cena got his match, never saw that coming (cough).

Axel is getting decent reactions so let's have him lose within a minute again, for fuck sake.

Los Motadoros beating the usos, fuck off.

That'll do for now.

As it stands I can not be arsed renewing my network after me free February month and staying up to watch mania. Sure those who are going will enjoy the experience but I hope it picks up as I'm not hopeful right now.

I will give it to the raw after mania as that is usually good, if that doesn't get me wanting more then enough is enough I will grow up and find something else to watch.

Oh and where's me pal Bo Dallas got to?!

 

[ForeverUnited]

Stardust added to the IC Title match, No place for Bryan.

 

[Leewilson]

Stardust added to the IC Title match, No place for Bryan.

Rumours are that it will be an 8 man match so expecting Goldust to be added to it yet along with Bryan.

If not, then I can only assume Goldust will interfere against Stardust and Bryan will have a rushed match with a returning Sheamus.....whenever that happens.

 

[Luke]

Cody Rhodes would be fantastic in the ladder match.

Sooner he drops the star dust character and style and goes back to Cody the better IMO.

 

[Oaf]

Whoa, I always thought that even if people disagreed on a lot of things in wrestling right now, everybody was at least enjoying the IC title picture at the moment. I love it.

For months Lesnar hasn't been around much and everybody has been screaming for them to use the WWE titles absence as a chance to make the IC and US titles mean something again... and they pretty much did fuck all with them. In the last month though... the titles are starting to look as if they actually matter again. Cena going for the US title alone adds value to it, and right now it seems like EVERYBODY wants that IC belt. That's the way it should be.

And I won't have you talking shit about my boy R-Truth. He's been fucking brilliant these last few weeks! It always enrages me that Truth can be this entertaining, yet he spends most of his career doing fuck all. Keep him as a fucking off his head weirdo. He absolutely shines in that role.

 

[silvergull]

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1612146-most-awful-rtwm-ever.html

Great thread. It feels like this is the first WM with absolutely no long term planning other than HHH vs Sting.
The biggest one for me is missing iut on Rollins vs Ambrose. The moment Reigns returned, they nixed that fued and never returned to it. How can the destruction of the greatest WWE faction in a decade not end up as a WM event?

My biggest concern is that rather than let the ladder match pace and tell the story it's capable of telling, they'll turn it into a spot fest. Both HHH / Sting and Taker/ Wyatt will be slow paced so need a foil to that.

He other thing of course is Cena being a hypocrite and the worst human being. what exactly has Rusev done wrong, other than being proud of e country that adopted him. What the American dream is founded on. yet Cena has to jump him and bully his girlfriend into accepting a fight or seeing someone she cares about murdered.

It's what's annoyed me about the WWE face booking for years. The 'super faces' are horrible people. I worry what they'll do with Bayley and Zayn when the come up as they've forgotten to book faces

 

[Leewilson]

Great thread. It feels like this is the first WM with absolutely no long term planning other than HHH vs Sting.
The biggest one for me is missing iut on Rollins vs Ambrose. The moment Reigns returned, they nixed that fued and never returned to it. How can the destruction of the greatest WWE faction in a decade not end up as a WM event?

Agree with that. Ambrose was the most over man in WWE during late 2014. They've killed his momentum again with silly pointless booking. His feud with Wyatt whilst decent went on for too long and ended up being too samey. When WWE want something though, they don't stop. They obviously had decided beforehand that Reigns would be the one, Rollins would be booked as a strong heel whilst Ambrose would boost the mid card.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I think the ME build has just completely hurt this years mania as the idea is good and has been tried many times, but the delivery is so horrendously bad it won't work.

This years mania event is very much similar to starrcade 1993 in as such creating one hell of a monster Champion over the whole year and using him to get over the big face at the main PPV.

difference being WCW had Flair with his career on the line in his hometown as the face.......WWE meanwhile fail on 2 fronts, firstly their built monster heel has weakened his build by hardly being there (your not a monster heel if you only work 5 days a year) and moreso the face against him isn't who the fans want......the reaction during the show will ruin it as I can see fans cheering lesnar, booing Reigns and it all falling to bits. While Heyman is great on the mic and is a good choice for Lesnar the problem is Heyman is too well liked and really to have got the right reaction he needed a complete d*ckhead as his mouthpiece......maybe have had Lesnar turn on Heyman during last year would have worked but then Lesnar cannot be bothered to turn up to turn on anyone.

idea is good, it usually can work well, but should have had Bryan here then had Reigns win it from Bryan later in year to get hime over. Bryan is over with the fans so you'd got your reaction.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

The thing that has bothered me about the last few Mania's are all these 'get everyone on the show' matches that don't seem natural at all. You've got a battle royal, a multi-man ladder match and a multi-team tag team title match (probably). how many people exactly are going to be in this battle royal? there's not many people left. titus o'neill? alex riley? why not have straight up cesaro & kidd v the usos for the tag titles in a 10 minute tag team spectacle, and then the drizzly shits that are New Day & Los Matadores in the battle royal?

i would honestly prefer bryan v sheamus at this stage, give bryan a singles match that goes a good 15 minutes against a fellow good worker. rather than having him thrown into this ladder match as an after thought. he deserves much, much better than that.

and this crap with most of the main event matches not being represented live on raw. undertaker? not on raw. sting? not on raw. lesnar? only faced reigns face to face once in 2 months. only leaves orton v rollins as the most regularly seen feud on tv. and whilst it has the potential to steal the show as a match, the booking has been pretty crap.

the bryan / hhh angle was a huge difference to last year and this year. the momentum for that mania went along with bryan. right now there isn't that angle that is carrying any momentum.

PS Cena. Hypocrite. Call Rollins a coward for threatening to beat up Edge to get the Authority back. Then beats up Rusev to get a shot at the US Title. Well booked.

 

[Oaf]

Glad I'm not the only one who thought Cena was an absolute piece of shit for what he did to Rusev

If we're talking faces being heels though, the worst thing ever was a couple months back where Jericho was the GM. Bullied the fuck out of Paul Heyman and then tried giving himself a match against him for absolutely NO REASON. This wasn't like when Punk finally got his hands on Heyman after months of being screwed over by him. He'd done fuck all to Jericho and Jericho forced him into a situation where he could beat him up... of course, then Lesnar came out and gave Jericho exactly what he deserved, so it worked out ok in the end.

Great thread. It feels like this is the first WM with absolutely no long term planning other than HHH vs Sting.

I agree with most of the post, but not this part...

Lesnar/Reigns - The basis for this was planted last year when Lesnar beat Taker. That set into motion Lesnars dominant year and took him to where he is today as an unstoppable beast for Reigns to overcome. I'm sure that if Reigns wasn't injured they'd have continued making him look dominant as well.

Rollins/Orton - The shit between them started a long time ago... yes, they completely fucked it up when Orton came back up until the last Raw, but regardless, you can't exactly say it wasn't pretty long term booking.

They certainly planted the seeds for those two matches and Sting/Triple H a fair while ago, at the least.

But yes, I still reckon a Reigns/Ambrose/Rollins triple threat would have been the way to go. But after crying out for Punk/Bryan last year which would have absolutely been the right main event at the time, I've given up hope in thinking that WWE will put the right match at the main event of WM. Still though... the fallout of the Shield could have been so much more. Don't get me wrong, Rollins/Ambrose was absolutely feud of the year for me and they had awesome matches... but Reigns looked like he just sort of let Rollins slide for what he did. I guess his injury kind of fucked him over as he'd have surely feuded with Rollins if he hadn't been injured... and then when he came back, they had to get him heading straight into Wrestlemania.

It sort of feels like they'll try to do the Rollins/Reigns part of the feud whenever they can, though. Hell, perhaps after Reigns beats Lesnar and Rollins cashes in (successfully or not) that could reignite the feud between them.

 

[Oaf]

By the way, thinking about how this Lesnar/Reigns match is going to go...

Ok, so yeah, we all assume that Reigns is going to beat Lesnar, because that's the way WWE like to do things usually. And if you're a betting man, your house would go on Reigns... but...

A) Be honest... leading into last year with Lesnar vs Taker, you'd have put the house on Taker to win. If you'd asked anybody which match Lesnar was more likely to win out of Taker last year and Reigns this year, as much as it looks like Reigns is going to win it this year, you'd have put your money on Lesnar to beat Reigns. So bigger surprises have happened...

B) WWE seem to love doing their Wrestlemania stuff very long term now. Look at Rock/Cena, Taker/Triple H, Taker/HBK... all two year long stories. I could actually see WWE letting Lesnar beat Reigns, hold onto the title for a year, and then have Reigns finally beat him next year at WM 32.

Ok, yes, so it all depends on Lesnar signing a new deal with WWE. And while you may think "no way will they let a part timer hold onto the title for a year", to be fair, we never really thought they'd actually let Lesnar keep the title since Summerslam either. And it seems like such a WWE thing to do to try and get Lesnar to beat CM Punks title reigns purely out of spite.

And here's where we truly enter Eamonn fantasy booking land:

Perhaps they could actually tie it in with the whole "if Lesnar wants to unify the WWE and UFC titles, he'll do that" thing. If Lesnar is truly looking to go back to UFC... they could let him, and have it as part of the storyline. Lesnar is "gone" with the title... and last time when Punk did that, they brought in a new title. So they'd bring in this "new" WWE title to cover Lesnars absence... let Lesnar go and do UFC stuff for about 9 months while WWE get this replacement title... and then, around rumble time, Lesnar comes back. At Fast Lane, he fights the "Replacement" WWE champion to unify the titles... then at Wrestlemania, when he's truely looking like a total badass, Reigns finally gets the win to redeem his loss at the previous year.

It could happen. Shut up.

 

[Leewilson]

Rollins has got to cash in at some point Oaf so I can't see that Lesnar scenario happening. WWE won't go another year with a part time champion. I'm hoping WM ends with Rollins holding the title aloft. After the year he's had, he deserves it.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

Rollins has got to cash in at some point Oaf so I can't see that Lesnar scenario happening. WWE won't go another year with a part time champion. I'm hoping WM ends with Rollins holding the title aloft. After the year he's had, he deserves it.

I hope that's what happens as well. Set the groundwork for a shield triple threat at summerslam/WM 32

 

[Oaf]

Rollins has got to cash in at some point Oaf so I can't see that Lesnar scenario happening. WWE won't go another year with a part time champion. I'm hoping WM ends with Rollins holding the title aloft. After the year he's had, he deserves it.

Yeah, but if Lesnar "did a Punk" and left with the title, WWE could bring a new title in like they did back then for Rollins to get involved with.

But yeah, regardless, Rollins ending WM as champ would be awesome. Heck, I'd even take him winning the title on Raw the night after... he's the best thing going in wrestling today.

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

Rollins will cash in at WM and take the title, but I still think Lesnar will beat Reigns, with Rollins cashing as the match finishes. By that time, Lesnar will be worn down enough for Rollins to get a 3 count in

 

[Captain Scumbag]

^ I quite like the idea of Reigns losing a close match with Lesnar this year, then finally getting he win in the rematch at next year's show. There is a strong sense that it's too early for him, so why not play off of that – i.e. get across the idea that he's not on Brock's level yet, he needs to learn, come back stronger, etc. Give the guy another year. Perhaps the fans would be more amenable to that sort of build.

An opportunistic cash-in by Rollins plays quite neatly into this. You take the title from Brock in a way that protects him. Reigns can then feud with Rollins (and the Authority generally) for the title. And even if Reigns wins the title and goes over a bunch of top guys later in 2015, you still have that Lesnar rematch in your back pocket. Lesnar remains the guy who he couldn't quite beat. Lesnar remains, in most people's minds, the rightful champion. Then you bring Brock back for the rematch.

It's the sort of angle that is more in the Japanese tradition than the American one, but it's one way of pushing Reigns to the moon while still leaving him with something to prove.

PS – There is not a single WM match I'm looking forward to this year.

 

[Eamonn]

I'm looking forward to them all, the ladder match is going to be so good, I dont think Sting will want his first WWE match to be a dud and Taker will be looking to prove a point, I just hope he puts Bray over. In fact I'd have Sting and Taker both lose as HHH really needs a win, think hes 1-11 last few years. Taker comes out on Raw to announce his retirement, puts over Bray as indeed the new face of fear, Sting interrupts, says he too is considering retirement after he couldnt get the job done against HHH but says none of them could live with themselves if they didnt give the fans what they have waited 20 years to see, Sting vs Undertaker, WM 32, double retirement match. Undertaker accepts, they shake hands, the match is made.

I think Reigns will lose also, defeats to Show and Rollins recently have been bringing him a bit more down to earth and think would work in his favour to lose valiantly and build himself up again. However, I really want him to turn heel with Heyman and win the title, Heyman stating hes protecting his investment as Lesnar was leaving and Reigns is the future.

 

[Oaf]

Yeah, can't really say I mind the card all that much. I mean, the battle royal may be a bit crap, and I hate that they're doing a tag womens match (there's been like 1 Divas/Womens title match at the last 11 WM's... something like that.) but the rest is fine by me. Sure, it could have been better in places (not having a Shield triple threat main event is a massive missed opportunity) but it's no better or worse looking than last years was for me, and last years turned out to be superb.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

Ambrose & Ziggler calling Bryan a 'turd' at the end of Smackdown.

i hate vince mcmahon

 

[ForeverUnited]

Ambrose & Ziggler calling Bryan a 'turd' at the end of Smackdown.

i hate vince mcmahon

I read somewhere, it was said at the tapings, it was a dark segment.

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

I read somewhere, it was said at the tapings, it was a dark segment.

which unfortunately ended up getting aired on tv

 

[Oaf]

I thought that was great! Just before it happened, I was legitimately saying how shit it was that it was basically a 7 man match with two teams of people... I was calling out for some face on face action. And while I didn't get that, Ambrose calling Bryan a turd just for the sake of it was pretty much as good. I hate faces being all buddy buddy with each other. It suited Ambrose to the bone.

 

[Eamonn]

I thought the turd stuff was pretty funny, so out of left field. I do hope we get Bryan vs Ziggler, Bryan vs Ambrose or Ziggler vs Ambrose before Mania, we surely will and hopefully gets loads of time. Id love Ziggler to come out and challenge Bryan tonight. Even better have a triple threat tonight!

 

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

I don't mind tension between Ambrose, Ziggler & Bryan. It's the ridiculous, childish way of doing it that I have issues with.

My 7 year old son gets called a 'turd' in school and he turns round & says 'really, a turd, wow your pretty uncool'
Now imagine grown adults saying it. Forget PG, this is serious U stuff.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I'm miles behind as I have been moving so it takes up time, in regards to the hype debate it is easily one of the worst hyped Mania's I've seen, it says a lot here, we're a couple of weeks away with 2 people from here actually going, we've no Mania thread, about 2 pages worth of talk on it which has just gone into the Raw thread as no one is that ar*ed, most of that is moaning, the only positive views are mostly wild hopes.

but as said above Hype doesn't always make a mania, I'd said the 3 biggest hyped events in wrestling history were Mania 3, Mania 17 and Starrcade 1997 (that is hype than money/event before people argue) and if I remove my old school bias here, mania 3 is average at best and that is only due to Savage/Steamboat pushing it up to average and Starrcade 97 is absolutely awful.

If the wrestlers on the day have a good buzz to them, crowd gets into the show, they pick the right opener, have a show stealer in the middle, if Sting/HHH can deliver that storyline match and they get the right finish........it'll work.

I think the biggest danger this mania has is 2 things, firstly the crowd and secondly the finish. The crowds in WWE are at odds with the product at present so it may lead to a weak crowd and of course the finish because well.........I don't know how they can finish this one really.

 

[T.A]

I disagree. There is at least three decent matches, Sting/TripleH, IC Ladder match, Orton/Rollins. Then you have the U.S title match which actually has some priority for once and I think the WWE title match will be better than some think too.

Obviously you have the filler matches but you always get them. It won't be the best mania but it'll be nowhere near the worst.