Jürgen Kop

[Kopper]

For a start, that is an incredibly simplistic view of two differing systems of counterpressing and a possession oriented approach. Both employing a high press doesn't automatically make the style of football the same, anyone who's watched us over the past few years can see that!

And by the end, Rodgers wasn't particularly employing any discernible style whatsoever. We always looked far better under him with a more counter attacking style, yes, but even over his last few months Rodgers espoused possession as of most import, which had become totally sterile. We were easy to read, extremely easy to play against, and he had pushed for signings that didn't suit the style he wanted to employ and misused other players.

We may have had a lift (although our league position in 12/13 may not be suggestive of an immediate one, in the 2nd half of that season we were much improved after the signings of Sturridge & Coutinho), but there is far more in Klopp's record to suggest that he is capable of consistently delivering better campaigns. Whilst there are certainly questions to be asked still,I think you're being overly pessimistic, particularly as it has only just become June after a season in which Klopp has taken us to two cup finals with his only signing being Steven Caulker and throwing reserve teams out in the league for over a month.

For me Klopp has had a great season considering what he was working with. I like the fact he prioritized the Europa Cup over the league and was willing to put out reserve sides to achieve it.
But the problems still remain. We have 3 good performances then several awful ones. We can't deal with rough house teams. The players (even when rested) look drained.
Lovren, Milner and Moreno should've already played their last game for the club.
Some of this can be addressed in the transfer window, but not if Klopp doesn't recognise the problems in the first place.
I also don't think we need expensive recruits. Pochettino has worked wonders with virtually no money for the entire time he's been there.
Our scouts and manager should be looking to emulate that, with one or two decent buys.
I'm willing to give Klopp a blank 5 year slate to sort us out. If we're moving in the right direction that is.

 

[FootyLad]

I was genuinely satisfied when Liverpool lost the Capital One Cup and then even happier when they lost the Europa League. As a Stoke fan, I felt we deserved to go through in the second leg of our game, but thanks to some rather laughable refereeing and Mignolet pulling off a good penalty save, it was not to be.

 

[Stocky]

To be fair the transition from Rodgers being a genius to a nobody from Liverpool fans was remarkably abrubt. Usually it seems a bit more gradual with their past managers. I think it'll be gradual with Klopp. It'll just ebb away at them ala Rafael Benitez.

 

[Kopper]

To be fair the transition from Rodgers being a genius to a nobody from Liverpool fans was remarkably abrubt. Usually it seems a bit more gradual with their past managers. I think it'll be gradual with Klopp. It'll just ebb away at them ala Rafael Benitez.

Most Liverpool supporters recognise the massive contribution he made to this club. Despite winning silverware with Houllier, Benitez and Dalglish I always felt we were going backward on the field if not at the club. Rogers was the first manager since Evans to give us a recognisable style of play that wasn't reliant on one world class talent (Owen and Torres). For that and making us believe in 13\14, he will always hold a place of honour in our affection.

 

[Pagnell]

Most Liverpool supporters recognise the massive contribution he made to this club. Despite winning silverware with Houllier, Benitez and Dalglish I always felt we were going backward on the field if not at the club. Rogers was the first manager since Evans to give us a recognisable style of play that wasn't reliant on one world class talent (Owen and Torres). For that and making us believe in 13\14, he will always hold a place of honour in our affection.

Given that Rodgers' only good season was almost entirely down to Suarez and Sturridge (and the former in particular), I find that comment odd. It might have been a style that wasn't built around one individual, but it may as well have been in the end.

 

[SALTIRE]

For me Klopp has had a great season considering what he was working with. I like the fact he prioritized the Europa Cup over the league and was willing to put out reserve sides to achieve it.
But the problems still remain. We have 3 good performances then several awful ones. We can't deal with rough house teams. The players (even when rested) look drained.
Lovren, Milner and Moreno should've already played their last game for the club.
Some of this can be addressed in the transfer window, but not if Klopp doesn't recognise the problems in the first place.
I also don't think we need expensive recruits. Pochettino has worked wonders with virtually no money for the entire time he's been at Spurs.
Our scouts and manager should be looking to emulate that, with one or two decent buys.
I'm willing to give Klopp a blank 5 year slate to sort us out. If we're moving in the right direction that is.

Lovren and Milner have been two of the best players in the team and you want rid?

 

[johnnytodd]

Liverpool football club knowledge stats:

Kopper > Pagnell > Saltire

 

[Pagnell]

Yeah, and he might even learn to spell Rogers' [sic] name properly at some point.

 

[Renegade]

Exactly, it's Brodge, get it right lads.

 

[Pagnell]

Da' Brodge you mean.

 

[SALTIRE]

 

[JimJams]

Mignolets kid?

 

[JaseTheVillain]

For me Klopp has had a great season considering what he was working with. I like the fact he prioritized the Europa Cup over the league and was willing to put out reserve sides to achieve it.
But the problems still remain. We have 3 good performances then several awful ones. We can't deal with rough house teams. The players (even when rested) look drained.
Lovren, Milner and Moreno should've already played their last game for the club.
Some of this can be addressed in the transfer window, but not if Klopp doesn't recognise the problems in the first place.
I also don't think we need expensive recruits. Pochettino has worked wonders with virtually no money for the entire time he's been there.
Our scouts and manager should be looking to emulate that, with one or two decent buys.
I'm willing to give Klopp a blank 5 year slate to sort us out. If we're moving in the right direction that is.

Milner has been your best player since Klopp took over, you mug. Lovren has been decent too. Two of your best players and you want rid, thank god you're not Liverpool manager, eh? Well, for Liverpool fans at least, for everyone else, we'd be quite happy with that.

 

[Kopper]

Given that Rodgers' only good season was almost entirely down to Suarez and Sturridge (and the former in particular), I find that comment odd. It might have been a style that wasn't built around one individual, but it may as well have been in the end.

So Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson were along for the ride? Was it my imagination nearly every outfield player scored for us that year?
You know we were good when
the joke doing the rounds that season was Skrtel had scored more than Torres.

Pags, now would be a good time to remind everyone of which team you support.

 

[Kopper]

Lovren and Milner have been two of the best players in the team and you want rid?

Two of the best players in a team that finished 8th in the league.
Sakho is 10 times the player Lovren will ever be. So there's my reservation on your judgement of a player.

I like Milner, but for all the wrong reasons. He's got a great engine and an even greater shot on him. But we need far more than that if we're ever going to break into the top 4 again.

 

[Pagnell]

Two of the best players in a team that finished 8th in the league.
Sakho is 10 times the player Lovren will ever be. So there's my reservation on your judgement of a player.

I like Milner, but for all the wrong reasons. He's got a great engine and an even greater shot on him. But we need far more than that if we're ever going to break into the top 4 again.

Milner has more assists than any other player in the top flight this calendar year so far. The fact you want rid speaks volumes. He's no spring chicken, but no way should he have 'played his last Liverpool game'.

 

[Pagnell]

So Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson were along for the ride? Was it my imagination nearly every outfield player scored for us that year?
You know we were good when
the joke doing the rounds that season was Skrtel had scored more than Torres.

Pags, now would be a good time to remind everyone of which team you support.

Comparatively speaking they were along for the ride. Suarez and Sturridge were the primary reasons for Liverpool's 2nd place finish. End of. The defence was shite, the philosophy was basically that you can score, but we'll score more. And we did. Thanks mainly to Suarez and Sturridge, and not just through scoring goals, also through their assists with other players. And hence the reason why the following season was such a sharp contrast when Suarez had been sold and Sturridge turned into a crock of monumental proportions making a total of 12 appearances.

And I suspect only you know what you're on about in that last comment.

 

[SALTIRE]

Two of the best players in a team that finished 8th in the league.
Sakho is 10 times the player Lovren will ever be. So there's my reservation on your judgement of a player.

I like Milner, but for all the wrong reasons. He's got a great engine and an even greater shot on him. But we need far more than that if we're ever going to break into the top 4 again.

You know that we gave up on the league the last few months after the Southampton game right, and is why we finished 8th when we were concentrating on the EL?

I like Sakho but he is still inconsistent; Lovren has been superb the whole season since Klopp came in whilst Sakho has had one or two iffy games, and the fact that he wasn't missed when a 35 year old Kolo Toure came in says a lot. Sakho is not Baresi (look him up) and is not 10 times the player Lovren is, and Sakho will be lucky to get many games with a CB pairing of Lovren and Matip (unless Klopp brings someone else in) this coming season, and Gomez coming back.

I agree to an extent on Milner, but he was one of our most creative player (maybe the most statistically the whole season) and is more than good enough for the PL to help Liverpool get back into the top four and maybe higher.

 

[Kopper]

Comparatively speaking they were along for the ride. Suarez and Sturridge were the primary reasons for Liverpool's 2nd place finish. End of. The defence was shite, the philosophy was basically that you can score, but we'll score more. And we did. Thanks mainly to Suarez and Sturridge, and not just through scoring goals, also through their assists with other players. And hence the reason why the following season was such a sharp contrast when Suarez had been sold and Sturridge turned into a crock of monumental proportions making a total of 12 appearances.

And I suspect only you know what you're on about in that last comment.

The topic of debate is whether Rogers created a fully functional side that wasn't reliant on 1 player.
The answer is yes.
Henderson was our most improved player that year, who arguably was on par with Sturridge in terms of importance. Sterling was assist or score. He also made a nuisance of himself with the opposition. Constantly harrying and finding space. And of course the wizard Coutinho would dazzle us with his moments of magic.

To ignore their contribution that season in order to make your point, is nothing short of churlish.
Were we a one dimensional side waiting for Owen or Torres to do their thing, as was the case under Houllier and Benitez? No we weren't and let's not pretend we were.

 

[Pagnell]

I strongly suspect any debate you get involved in could go on in circles forever.

I will leave this particular one with this. In my opinion Rodgers' most successful stage as Liverpool manager (actually, his only successful stage) relied on one individual (Suarez) just as much as Benitez ever did during his tenure. As was shown by what we turned into when he was sold to Barcelona. You disagree. Which is fine, that's what forums are about.

 

[Kopper]

So the following season Sturridge wasn't out injured and Sterling wasn't missing sitters every week?

How about a little context.

If Suarez is the reason we were good in 13/14 was he the reason we were bad in 11/12?
Did Rogers inspire Suarez to fulfill his potential?
If you measure success purely in trophies won then you could view him as having failed. Otherwise building a philosophy, a style of play and bringing through a fair amount of our youth. Judged in that way Rogers was a success overall.

 

[Kopper]

You know that we gave up on the league the last few months after the Southampton game right, and is why we finished 8th when we were concentrating on the EL?

I like Sakho but he is still inconsistent; Lovren has been superb the whole season since Klopp came in whilst Sakho has had one or two iffy games, and the fact that he wasn't missed when a 35 year old Kolo Toure came in says a lot. Sakho is not Baresi (look him up) and is not 10 times the player Lovren is, and Sakho will be lucky to get many games with a CB pairing of Lovren and Matip (unless Klopp brings someone else in) this coming season, and Gomez coming back.

I agree to an extent on Milner, but he was one of our most creative player (maybe the most statistically the whole season) and is more than good enough for the PL to help Liverpool get back into the top four and maybe higher.

You do remember when Rogers dropped Sakho for Lovren. He almost had Sakho out the door when he realised (and all of us did too) Lovren was the reason we were shipping goals. Rogers reversed his decision and dropped Lovren for Sakho. That's when our clean sheets started to appear.

Lovren could be decent at best. He will never be better than that. He had a boost under a new manager. Once that wears off Lovren will revert to type.

 

[FootyLad]

Hardly seems 12 month since we beat you 6-1 What a way to send Stevie G on his way to America.

Still, we'll see about Klopp, jury's out for me.

 

[johnnytodd]

Kopper kicking butt here loving it.........

 

[Pagnell]

So the following season Sturridge wasn't out injured and Sterling wasn't missing sitters every week?

How about a little context.

If Suarez is the reason we were good in 13/14 was he the reason we were bad in 11/12?
Did Rogers inspire Suarez to fulfill his potential?
If you measure success purely in trophies won then you could view him as having failed. Otherwise building a philosophy, a style of play and bringing through a fair amount of our youth. Judged in that way Rogers was a success overall.

Now you're moving the goalposts and coming out with strawman arguments. I never said Rodgers was a failure, nor did I say he didn't have a large part to play in Suarez becoming the player he is today, although it would have happened anyway given the raw talent the man has. But the simple fact is that Suarez IS the primary reason we challenged for the title in 2013/2014, the vast majority of people would agree with that whether you like it or not. Without him it wouldn't have happened. So whilst Rodgers might not have employed a system which, on paper at least, required a world class player to be successful, the net result of his time at Liverpool was that was the case anyway.

If it makes you feel any better I enjoyed Rodgers' tenure overall, and bar the exploits of 2005, 2013/2014 was probably my favourite season since the 1980s. But it was right to get rid of him, especially given that the board knew Klopp was willing to take the job on.

And please, if you're going to continually champion someone, at least make the effort to spell their name correctly.

 

[johnnytodd]

Not one player ever passed to Suarez, he did everything himself

LOL

 

[johnnytodd]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1047929608577267

 

[Kopper]

Now you're moving the goalposts and coming out with strawman arguments. I never said Rodgers was a failure, nor did I say he didn't have a large part to play in Suarez becoming the player he is today, although it would have happened anyway given the raw talent the man has. But the simple fact is that Suarez IS the primary reason we challenged for the title in 2013/2014, the vast majority of people would agree with that whether you like it or not. Without him it wouldn't have happened. So whilst Rodgers might not have employed a system which, on paper at least, required a world class player to be successful, the net result of his time at Liverpool was that was the case anyway.

If it makes you feel any better I enjoyed Rodgers' tenure overall, and bar the exploits of 2005, 2013/2014 was probably my favourite season since the 1980s. But it was right to get rid of him, especially given that the board knew Klopp was willing to take the job on.

And please, if you're going to continually champion someone, at least make the effort to spell their name correctly.

Suarez's goals were the primary factor in us challenging for the league. But the point I'm making is that he was no one man band. You're trying to make out he was.

No one buys that.

Pags you used the 14/15 season to justify your view we were all about Suarez. When if Sturridge had been fit we would've finished higher than 6th. All those chances that went begging with Sterling leading the line would've been buried with Sturridge at the helm.

p.s. Rodgers can be spelt Rogers the same as Clarke can be spelt Clark.
Pags, you've got your pants on too tight if you're making these types of observations.

 

[Pagnell]

Again, strawman. I never once said we as a team or him as an individual was a one man band.

 

[G-Dragon]

FFS rodgers is gone, time to move on lads.

In terms of Lovren and Sakho debate, I think Lovren has been a better defender for us this season. He has improved a lot. I wouldn't say back to his Southampton form but close. Sakho isn't bad either. The two of them as a pair kept us solid in the back.

With Sakho, Lovren and Matip all having a full pre season, hopefully Klopp has a good idea of what the best pairing would be next season.