Jürgen Kop

[JoshBCFC]

I get that, but he has also said he wants in players who are willing to be part of a longer term project and will probably seek out personalities that put the team before their ego. That's doable even in this day and age, particularly if he brings in a lot of youth with nacent potential.

? Look back at the first post where I quoted you...

 

[SALTIRE]

 

[G-Dragon]

Is that you with Klopp by any chance?

 

[SALTIRE]

Is that you with Klopp by any chance?

Haha I wish I had that guys hair tbh!!

 

[Kopper]

As a neutral I don't think you can say either way that he's been an amazing success or a failure, though I'd lean more towards the former than the latter.

This Liverpool side have been a bit inconsistent, but have put in some promising performances (Dortmund, Man City away and home in the league, Chelsea away, Villa/Saints away) which suggests they could be a force next season if they find that consistency. People critiquing them for 'bottling' it on Wednesday didn't truly expect them to get there in the first place - Sevilla are a good side too.

However, there have been some issues. They seem to struggle under Klopp against solid, physical sides (Watford, Newcastle at St. James are/were solid at times, West Ham etc.). He/they need to learn how to deal with figures like Carroll when they come up against them.

The key for me is that there are signs of promise when Klopp hasn't recruited/hasn't had a full pre-season with the squad. August onwards will be the key in terms of judging him.

We had the exact same problem under Rogers of dealing with physical sides. This is why Rogers brought in Can and Benteke.
It seems Klopp is learning the lessons Rogers did, but one wonders whether he can come up with better answers.

 

[Kopper]

I think he could do well and agree starting from next season is when he can start to be fairly judged.

However, the adulation he's received since going to Liverpool by the media and to an extent their fans (I can understand this to be fair- every club does it. Fans need hope) is baffling. I keep hearing of this Klopp effect and I'm not sure I've really seen it. Their run in the Europa was something Liverpool have been producing under most of their managers for my football lifetime. They've always been a good cup side, as good as anybody in the country (even United and Chelsea in European competitions). I think he could do well but the adulation he's received is strange. If Rodgers had stayed all season and mirrored this campaign with same results in all comps, he'd be getting grief for an awful league campaign and bottling the Europa League final to a more tactically savvy manager.

I agree to some extent. But I don't believe Rogers could've gotten us to the finals in either cup competition.
I like almost everything about Klopp. The fact he blamed himself for the Europa final defeat speaks volumes about him as a person and a manager. I've got nothing but respect and admiration for him. But what I want is for Rogers to call him and point out all the shortcomings of a system they both employ.
We need a few bruisers in the team and for a system that relies on us running around and forcing errors out of the opposition. I would rather a few decent academy prospect or cheap (£1m) youth options from elsewhere. Our scouts need to earn their keep in this regard.

 

[Pagnell]

There is absolutely nothing Rodgers could teach Klopp. Well, other than talking complete nonsense in post match interviews perhaps.

 

[JimJams]

We'll see. If Klopp ever gets 2nd or better in the Prem you'll be spot on.

 

[merseyboyred]

But what I want is for Rogers to call him and point out all the shortcomings of a system they both employ.

They obviously do not employ the same style of football.

Even if they did, if Rodgers knew those shortcomings and how to adress them, I doubt Jurgen would be in charge now...

 

[Pagnell]

We'll see. If Klopp ever gets 2nd or better in the Prem you'll be spot on.

You might have had a point if that 2nd spot was achieved on the back of ability Rodgers possesses that Klopp doesn't. Personally, I strongly doubt that is the case.

 

[JimJams]

There's no 'might have had' at all. I have a point. If you don't want to recognise it because you prefer your new manager thats up to you, but you can't dismiss Rodgers getting 2nd if Klopp never goes on to achieve it. He'll obviously have managed something Klopp hasn't. So he'll obviously have been doing something Klopp wasn't. So he'll obviously have at least something he could teach him. Obviously.
Just because Rodgers wasn't a massive success does not mean he was terrible at everything he did, and thus does not mean he doesn't do some things, whatever they may be, better than other managers. And they may include Klopp. Time will tell.

I bet he could teach him how to compile a dossier.

 

[Stevencc]

He could give a fantastic lecture on the use of buzzwords, too.

 

[G-Dragon]

and for a system that relies on us running around and forcing errors out of the opposition.

I think Klopp realizes that. One of the reason Allen didn't get a lot of start although he played well coming on as a sub numerous times. Klopp wants someone strong and tall next to Can imo.

 

[Pagnell]

There's no 'might have had' at all. I have a point. If you don't want to recognise it because you prefer your new manager thats up to you, but you can't dismiss Rodgers getting 2nd if Klopp never goes on to achieve it. He'll obviously have managed something Klopp hasn't. So he'll obviously have been doing something Klopp wasn't. So he'll obviously have at least something he could teach him. Obviously.
Just because Rodgers wasn't a massive success does not mean he was terrible at everything he did, and thus does not mean he doesn't do some things, whatever they may be, better than other managers. And they may include Klopp. Time will tell.

Right, firstly I never said Rodgers was terrible at anything, let alone everything. And secondly, I simply stated a belief that Liverpool achieving 2nd spot in the English top flight during his tenure had nothing to do with something Rodgers could teach Klopp. You disagree, which is fine.

Stupid debate anyway, based on little more than a throwaway, tongue in cheek remark.

 

[JimJams]

STUPID DEBATE? This should be televised fella! And not in a Jeremy Kyle way.

 

[johnnytodd]

Rodgers was a Mesiah one week and the week after had piss thrown at him by Liverpool fans..........just a reminder for those who even entertain a debate with these cringers.

 

[JimJams]

That's like a scouse mating ritual though isn't it?

 

[Kopper]

I think Klopp realizes that. One of the reason Allen didn't get a lot of start although he played well coming on as a sub numerous times. Klopp wants someone strong and tall next to Can imo.

I hope he does!

 

[Stevencc]

Strong?

Tall?

 

[Kopper]

They obviously do not employ the same style of football.

Even if they did, if Rodgers knew those shortcomings and how to adress them, I doubt Jurgen would be in charge now...

They both get their teams to harass the opposition when they don't have the ball. When we do have it, there's at least one player open to pass it to.

Rogers didn't know how to resolve those shortcomings but at least he knew what they were. He was trying a different approach when he got sacked. I feel Klopp is absolutely wedded to the pressing system and can't see the flaws in it. Rogers' mistake was spending too much money and not getting the results that level of investment requires. Towards the end of his tenure the restructuring of the system to a counter attacking team, made us look woefully inept.
Rogers didn't have the answers, but does Klopp?

Liverpool supporters are quick to forget the lift we got from Rogers' first two seasons. A similar lift to the one we're enjoying under Klopp.

 

[Kopper]

Strong?

Tall?

I got a feeling we're actually looking for someone who's good.

Maybe we're asking for too much.

But as they say, if you don't ask. You don't get.

 

[Pagnell]

*Rodgers

 

[G-Dragon]

Strong?

Tall?

PLS NOOO!

 

[merseyboyred]

They both get their teams to harass the opposition when they don't have the ball. When we do have it, there's at least one player open to pass it to.

Rogers didn't know how to resolve those shortcomings but at least he knew what they were. He was trying a different approach when he got sacked. I feel Klopp is absolutely wedded to the pressing system and can't see the flaws in it. Rogers' mistake was spending too much money and not getting the results that level of investment requires. Towards the end of his tenure the restructuring of the system to a counter attacking team, made us look woefully inept.
Rogers didn't have the answers, but does Klopp?

Liverpool supporters are quick to forget the lift we got from Rogers' first two seasons. A similar lift to the one we're enjoying under Klopp.

For a start, that is an incredibly simplistic view of two differing systems of counterpressing and a possession oriented approach. Both employing a high press doesn't automatically make the style of football the same, anyone who's watched us over the past few years can see that!

And by the end, Rodgers wasn't particularly employing any discernible style whatsoever. We always looked far better under him with a more counter attacking style, yes, but even over his last few months Rodgers espoused possession as of most import, which had become totally sterile. We were easy to read, extremely easy to play against, and he had pushed for signings that didn't suit the style he wanted to employ and misused other players.

We may have had a lift (although our league position in 12/13 may not be suggestive of an immediate one, in the 2nd half of that season we were much improved after the signings of Sturridge & Coutinho), but there is far more in Klopp's record to suggest that he is capable of consistently delivering better campaigns. Whilst there are certainly questions to be asked still,I think you're being overly pessimistic, particularly as it has only just become June after a season in which Klopp has taken us to two cup finals with his only signing being Steven Caulker and throwing reserve teams out in the league for over a month.

 

[merseyboyred]

They both get their teams to harass the opposition when they don't have the ball. When we do have it, there's at least one player open to pass it to.

Rogers didn't know how to resolve those shortcomings but at least he knew what they were. He was trying a different approach when he got sacked. I feel Klopp is absolutely wedded to the pressing system and can't see the flaws in it. Rogers' mistake was spending too much money and not getting the results that level of investment requires. Towards the end of his tenure the restructuring of the system to a counter attacking team, made us look woefully inept.
Rogers didn't have the answers, but does Klopp?

Liverpool supporters are quick to forget the lift we got from Rogers' first two seasons. A similar lift to the one we're enjoying under Klopp.

For a start, that is an incredibly simplistic view of two differing systems of counterpressing and a possession oriented approach. Both employing a high press doesn't automatically make the style of football the same, anyone who's watched us over the past few years can see that!

And by the end, Rodgers wasn't particularly employing any discernible style whatsoever. We always looked far better under him with a more counter attacking style, yes, but even over his last few months Rodgers espoused possession as of most import, which had become totally sterile. We were easy to read, extremely easy to play against, and he had pushed for signings that didn't suit the style he wanted to employ and misused other players.

We may have had a lift (although our league position in 12/13 may not be suggestive of an immediate one, in the 2nd half of that season we were much improved after the signings of Sturridge & Coutinho), but there is far more in Klopp's record to suggest that he is capable of consistently delivering better campaigns. Whilst there are certainly questions to be asked still,I think you're being overly pessimistic, particularly as it has only just become June after a season in which Klopp has taken us to two cup finals with his only signing being Steven Caulker and throwing reserve teams out in the league for over a month.

 

[johnnytodd]

I think the plastics are starting to regret losing Rodgers myself.......you can read between the lines in these desperate posts.

 

[Pagnell]

Speaking personally as chief armchair Liverpool fan, I cry myself to sleep every night. The thought of him in charge of Celtic instead of us leaves me full of grief.

Brendan, please come back.

 

[johnnytodd]

Speaking personally as chief armchair Liverpool fan, I cry myself to sleep every night. The thought of him in charge of Celtic instead of us leaves me full of grief.

Brendan, please come back.

I fully understand, it must me eating you away the thought of CLeague football with Brendan Rodgers

and you darn sarf watch MK Dons as Liverpool have another no game week.

LOLZ

 

[Pagnell]

......it must me eating you away

I'm scared.

 

[Kopper]

For a start, that is an incredibly simplistic view of two differing systems of counterpressing and a possession oriented approach. Both employing a high press doesn't automatically make the style of football the same, anyone who's watched us over the past few years can see that!

And by the end, Rodgers wasn't particularly employing any discernible style whatsoever. We always looked far better under him with a more counter attacking style, yes, but even over his last few months Rodgers espoused possession as of most import, which had become totally sterile. We were easy to read, extremely easy to play against, and he had pushed for signings that didn't suit the style he wanted to employ and misused other players.

We may have had a lift (although our league position in 12/13 may not be suggestive of an immediate one, in the 2nd half of that season we were much improved after the signings of Sturridge & Coutinho), but there is far more in Klopp's record to suggest that he is capable of consistently delivering better campaigns. Whilst there are certainly questions to be asked still,I think you're being overly pessimistic, particularly as it has only just become June after a season in which Klopp has taken us to two cup finals with his only signing being Steven Caulker and throwing reserve teams out in the league for over a month.

For me Klopp has had a great season considering what he was working with. I like the fact he prioritized the Europa Cup over the league and was willing to put out reserve sides to achieve it.
But the problems still remain. We have 3 good performances then several awful ones. We can't deal with rough house teams. The players (even when rested) look drained.
Lovren, Milner and Moreno should've already played their last game for the club.
Some of this can be addressed in the transfer window, but not if Klopp doesn't recognise the problems in the first place.
I also don't think we need expensive recruits. Pochettino has worked wonders with virtually no money for the entire time he's been at Spurs.
Our scouts and manager should be looking to emulate that, with one or two decent buys.
I'm willing to give Klopp a blank 5 year slate to sort us out. If we're moving in the right direction that is.